How to smear a hero

Julian Assange, Wikileaks

Image by New Media Days via Flickr

How do you discredit someone who undermines systems of power? In the old days, the CIA would just assassinate and murder them (they’ve tried 638 times to get Castro), even topple entire governments if need be. However, since the world is now much more aware of the dirty tricks or “Black Ops” that they use, powerful interests have had to find other ways of “subtly” smearing them in the public eye. Calling them a rapist is one way of doing it which is what has happened today to Julian Assange founder of WikiLeaks.

Firstly, let’s get the rather flimsy circumstances straight. Assange is accused of prancing around the Greater Stockholm area like a crazed animal between 15th to 17th August. According to center-right wing newspaper Expressen, last weekend, he sexually harassed a woman in Södermalm, Stockholm. Two or three days later, he traveled 20km to the quiet nearby town of Enköping where he supposedly raped another woman. The two women – aged “between 20-30″ according to Expressen and by an astonishing coincidence, friends also – decided a week later to go to a police station and said that “Julian Assange has raped and harassed us” and that they “didn’t want to press charges but just wanted some advice”. The first Assange knew of these allegations were when he saw the front on Expressen this morning. He denied it in an e-mail to Dagens Nyheter newspaper saying:

Why these accusations are coming at this point in time is an interesting question. I haven’t been contacted by the police. The allegations are false.

Assange is now understood to be making his way to a police station.

Secondly, let’s get the context clear to recent events in Assange’s life. The Pirate Party – a political party in Sweden dedicated to freedom of information – have this week agreed to host WikiLeaks documents on their servers since the organization is banned from publishing in many other countries. Assange has been in Sweden to arrange this deal and also agreed to write a column for centre-left Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet (the main rival to Expressen who “broke” this “story”), the first of which was due to be released today. Incidentally, Aftonbladet have decided to postpone publication in the light of the rape allegations.

Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, let’s get the wider context clear. Assange and his team at WikiLeaks are on the verge of publishing 15,000 more Afghan war documents which the US Government and Pentagon are desperate to suppress. Whether orchestrating a smear campaign against Assange would even stop that, I very much doubt it. And even if Assange were a rapist – or even worshiped Beelzebub and Hitler – it takes nothing away from the incriminating Collateral Murder video and Afghan war documents that WikiLeaks have already released.

Whether this is an orchestrated smear campaign, just two very silly girls, or a genuine case of rape and harassment, the fact is that WikiLeaks is bigger than Assange as he I’m sure would be the first to admit. It, and other projects like it, cannot be stopped. It’s like Chavez in Venezuela – even if the CIA assassinated him now, it’s too late to stop the popular revolution he’s unleashed and the same goes for the spirit of exposing abuses of power that WikiLeaks has ushered in since the corporate mainstream media are utterly impotent and unwilling to do so.

Unfortunately for the powerful, dirty tricks, black-ops and even assassinations simply can’t stop the tide of change and revolutions once they’ve begun in an inter-connected globalized age.

1,249 thoughts on “How to smear a hero

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  2. 18:15 update: The arrest warrant for Assange has already dropped before the police even contacted him. The Swedish public prosecutor says:

    “I don’t think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316

    However, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reports that “although he is no longer under suspicion of rape, the WikiLeaks founder is still under suspicion of molestation”.

    One of the women – a 30 year old who claims she was molested (but not raped) – has now spoken to Aftonbladet newspaper, stands by the accusation. She says that she somehow “came into contact with the other woman” who was raped but doesn’t elaborate on how this mysterious contact occurred.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab

    Until more is known about the two women, and until Assange himself either publicly confirms or denies contact with them, it’s very hard to say what’s going on but at least the accusation of rape is now off the agenda.

  3. 19.30 Update: It’s thought (unofficially at the moment) that this is one of the women that talked with Aftonbladet and alleges Assange molested her – 30 year old Anna Ardin, a Christian Democrat and Research Assistant at Uppsala University:

    http://www.ibf.uu.se/PERSON/anna/anna.html

    A separate organization she works for invited Assange to make a speech during the past week and from her tweets it’s pretty clear she was very excited about his arrival, especially around the time the offense is thought to have taken place. It’s apparent that Ardin has deleted some tweets relating to Juilan Assange since the story broke. On a cache of her blog on August 8th a tweet reads: “Julian vill gå på kräftskiva, nån som har ett par lediga platser ikväll el imorgon?” Translation: “Julian is going to a crayfish party. Does anyone have any spare places available for this evening or tomorrow?”. The cache is here:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MBozKbQ4fawJ:annaardin.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/ett-par-sanningens-ord-fran-einar-heckscher/+annaardin.wordpress.com&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a

    But as you’ll see from her current Twitter page, the tweet has been deleted:

    http://twitter.com/annaardin

    She has locked access to her WordPress blog probably due to the amount of abuse she has been receiving from people defending Assange but her old blog is still online. The blog is entirely in Swedish except for the banner-line at the top which is in English and reads: “My feminist reflections and comments on animal rights, Swedish politics and Cuba from a political scientist, Christian left and long distance runner will from now on be published at http://annaardin.wordpress.com“

    http://annaardin.blogspot.com/

    13:30 Aug 22 Update: The blog has now been blocked.

    She has also set up a Facebook “tribute” page to herself called “Anna Ardin är coolast i stan (Translation: Anna Ardin is the coolest in town/Anna Ardin as role model”). The profile description reads: “Ardin is a political scientist, communicator, entrepreneur and freelance writer with profound knowledge in faith & politics, equality, feminism and Latin America. She specializes in combining politics with humor and wits. We likes.”

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anna-Ardin-ar-coolast-i-stan-Anna-Ardin-as-role-model/110597885621376?ref=search

    The Pentagon’s open hostility towards WikiLeaks are well known and it’s quite possible this is a smear plot but it if is, it’s been pretty badly executed so far. It could just be a case of a woman who slept with him, possibly got her hopes up and then had sour grapes after she found out he’d also slept with another woman. It’s thought that the women either worked together or both had connections with the same organization that Assange did the speech for. At least one of the women, on realizing that Assange had slept with them both, may have felt rather upset that he’d “played around”. In their anger and hurt, it’s possible they may have taken the decision – or maybe even been coerced by outside forces – to smear him in revenge or alternatively, one of them convinced the other to make a joint accusation in return for something. It’s understood that the other woman involved is somewhat younger than Anna Ardin. It’s hard to say anything more until and if Assange speaks publicly on exactly what happened on the nights in question. In the end, it may all come down to a question of what exactly the victims consider “molestation” and what exactly the law defines it as.

  4. A good article, I must say. But, with all my respect for your opinions on Venezuela’s Mr Hugo Chavez and the “revolution” he’s supposedly “unleashed”, I don’t think comparing him with WikiLeaks’ Mr. Julian Assange makes the latter any favor.

  5. Thanks but I’m not drawing a direct comparison between the two men. I’m drawing a parallel between the spirit of change they’ve both started.

  6. admin:

    I don’t really have a strong opinion on Assange or WikiLeaks, I’d just say I think its hypocritical for his supporters to hunt down the names of these women only to harass them.

    Many critics charge that because WikiLeaks doesn’t name their sources, the site could potentially be used for defamation by publishing false documents. And, yet, despite this possibility, WikiLeaks defends their practice, so to avoid their sources getting the type of treatment Anna Ardin is getting.

    What, is confidentiality of sources only important when it’s on “your side”? I don’t get it.

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  8. @admin, Thanks for the link. Interestingly, The Pirate Party have now mysteriously removed her name as Press Secretary from their website.

    http://www.piratpartiet.se/feed-item/swedish-pirate-party-host-new-wikileaks-servers?sms_ss=digg

    @Redfish, I don’t think the link proves anything either way except that she had closer contact with him during his stay than is already known. What has happened however is that within the past 12 hours, the link to her old blog has been blocked to public access:

    http://annaardin.blogspot.com/

    The blog was entirely in Swedish except for the banner-line at the top which was in English and read:

    “My feminist reflections and comments on animal rights, Swedish politics and Cuba from a political scientist, Christian left and long distance runner will from now on be published at http://annaardin.wordpress.com

    Incidentally, one of her posts was about rape entitled: “Våldtäkt en del av mäns makt – Translation: “Rape, a part of mans power”. A cache of the post can be found here:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P33X_q4mvSUJ:annaardin.blogspot.com/2009/03/valdtakt-en-del-av-mans-makt.html+V%C3%A5ldt%C3%A4kt+en+del+av+m%C3%A4ns+makt&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a

    In a part where she talks about what she considers the lenient treatment of rapists in Brazil she highlights in bold:

    Världen styrs av män och det märks. Translation: The world is governed by men and it shows.

  9. 11.25 Aug 22 Update. Assange has now given his first interview with Aftonbladet on the matter.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7654862.ab

    In it he says:

    “What I can say is that I have never, either in Sweden or in any other country, had sex with someone that they haven’t consented to.”

    Some excerpts from the interview:

    Have you had sex with them?

    “Their identities have been made anonymous so even I have no idea who they are.”

    Have you had sex at all during your stay in Sweden?

    This is something I am entitled to keep private and also to preserve the privacy of the women.

    But is it not best in this situation to be as transparent as possible?

    Yes, but I do not want to drag people’s private lives through the dirt without having the whole situation clear to me. Why have they turned to the police? What lies behind their actions? What I can say is that I have never, either in Sweden or in any other country, had sex with someone that they haven’t consented to.

    Other excerpts:

    What do you think of the police and the prosecutor’s conduct?

    Nobody has asked me about my version of the story.

    What is your side of the story?

    I want to know more about what I am accused of before I say anything about it.

    You are suspected of molestation.

    Nothing I have done applies to this allegation.

    How would you sum up this Saturday?

    Neither the prosecutors or police have been in contact with me. However, I’m glad that the Swedish authorities quickly checked the women’s stories and struck-down allegations of rape. Apparently it is because a prosecutor with a higher rank took over the investigation and changed the decision to arrest me. The first prosecutor should be criticized however as well as the media who have blindly reported on the allegations.

    INTERVIEW ENDS

    I think from this it can be deduced that Assange did have sex with at least one or both of the women. Whether they were manipulated before or after the event by outside forces isn’t clear but in view of the open hostility towards him by the Pentagon, and the CIA’s track record of smearing or assassinating “state enemies”, it is a very strong likelihood. However, if Swedish prosecutors weren’t in on the plot, it may be that they foiled it by striking down the allegations before the plot had chance to get going properly. In other words, it was a very botched CIA plot (not impossible since in 638 attempts to kill Castro, they’ve failed everytime!) or the women executed the plan in such an unconvincing manner that the prosecutor simply didn’t bite.

    If it was a plot, then it seems likely that the women were contacted after the event. It’s hard to imagine that the CIA infiltrated an Uppsala University Researcher such as Anna Ardin (a self confessed feminist from the Christian Left according to her old blog) before the event because there was no guarantee she would be able to seduce him and get him into bed. More likely, it’s that Assange’s movements were being tracked constantly by secret service agents (Assange says this has already happened with other WikiLeaks staff in a video interview at The Crossfire Club in London) and when they caught him having sex, smelled a chance to frame him and coerced the two women one way or the other. There was a one week time frame between first incident and the arrest warrant so there was plenty of time for coercion and to work on a plot.

    If the allegations are genuine, then the question is what is “molestation”. Since its now clear police are satisfied both women consented to the sex from the beginning, it must pertain to something that happened during the sex. I’m not sure what Swedish law considers “molestation” during sex and have no desire to speculate about Assange’s sex life or sexual preference in bed but it’s possible that what’s considered “molestation” differs according to different people.

    Finally, Assange is quite right to be angry at the original prosecutor for issuing an arrest warrant. A senior prosecutor apparently had “more evidence” (although it’s not clear what that evidence was) and overturned it immediately it seems so there was no need to even issue an arrest warrant or his name. He’s equally right to be angry with center-right tabloid Expressen and the world mass media for swallowing the story and printing his name all over their front pages. Expressen maybe smelled an opportunity for some major publicity and a circulation boost and cynically took it. However, the original prosecutor who issued the arrest has a lot to answer for.

  10. 14:20 Update: A call has been made by an independent Swedish legal group called RO to get the Parliamentary Ombudsman to investigate the original prosecutor Mary Häljebo Kjell Strand for issuing the original arrest warrant. RO says the way the arrest warrant was handled was “a disaster for the law” adding:

    “The on-call prosecutor has not been objective, she has just listened to the notifier. She suspected Assange with the highest degree of suspicion without questioning him. If you were to lock up all people suspected of crimes the police wouldn’t have time to do anything else. There must be a factual basis for the prosecutor to decide whether to issue an arrest warrant. Particularly with regard to sexual offenses. This is not unique and I think it’s good that the problem comes to the surface.”

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7655734.ab

    It is thought that one of the women involved, Anna Ardin, specializes in women’s rights as part of her work. If so, she would have known the legal process intimately when it comes to reporting rape cases in Sweden and may also have been aware that on the Friday night when she made the accusation, the Chief Prosecutor would have been on holiday for the weekend. In her place, was Maria Häljebo Kjellstrand – a more inexperienced prosecutor who as we now know, rushed out an arrest warrant for rape for Assange.

    It was known from the start that Ardin didn’t make an official allegation of rape at the police station. She merely “wanted some advice on what to do” perhaps knowing that by doing so, legally she couldn’t later be accused of making a false accusation or charged with wasting police time if the allegations turned out to be false. However, if she had an in-depth knowledge of the legal procedure when it comes to reporting rape in Sweden, she may have known that legally, the police had to record it as a rape incident and thus set the wheels in motion to capture the so called rapist.

    In other words, it’s a legal loophole that makes it possible to make a false accusation with no fear of recriminations for wasting police time or making false accusations.

    It should be noted that this is all still speculation at the moment however and people can only make up their minds by the evidence that has emerged so far.

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  12. This is a very odd story. If the woman is Anna Ardin then it is not strange if you read her articles. She is very anti-Castro and work with groups that have close connections with CIA. She is also involved in Gaza and defends the use of veil by foreign women in Sweden at the same time that she started the first lesbian disco in Gotland.
    She looks like a very unstable person easy to manipulate…

  13. Best single-place follow-up of this creepy story I have found yet. Kudos!

  14. @Eric Larsson, Having read some more of her blog, I understand your concern. However, my concern has nothing to do with the what you say is her is speculate is her anti Castro activity, issues in Gaza or support for women wearing veils in Sweden (not sure about your close links with CIA claim either).

    My main concern is the blog post provided by Popcorn (thanks for the tip) above that she wrote on 19 January 2010: 7 Steps To Legal Revenge about 7 steps how to take legal revenge and punish a cheating lover. It’s worth reproducing here in its entirety such could be the importance of it in getting to the bottom of this entire story. The original text for each step is in Swedish with the English translation in bold:

    7 Steps to Legal Revenge
    January 19, 2010

    I’ve been thinking about some revenge over the last few days and came across a very good side who inspired me to this seven-point revenge instruction in Swedish.

    Steg 1 / Step 1

    Tänk igenom väldigt noga om du verkligen ska hämnas. Consider very carefully if you really must take revenge. Det är nästan alltid bättre att förlåta än att hämnas

    It is almost always better to forgive than to avenge

    Steg 2 / Step 2

    Tänk igenom varför du ska hämnas. Think about why you want revenge. Du behöver alltså inte bara vara på det klara med vem du ska hämnas på utan också varför. Hämnd ska aldrig riktas mot bara en person, utan även möta en viss handling.

    You need to be clear about who to take revenge on, as well as why. Revenge is never directed against only one person, but also the actions of the person.

    Steg 3 / Step 3

    Proportionalitetsprincipen.

    The principle of proportionality.

    Kom ihåg att hämnden inte bara ska matcha dådet i storlek utan även i art.

    Remember that revenge will not only match the deed in size but also in nature.

    En bra hämnd är kopplad till det som gjorts mot dig.

    A good revenge is linked to what has been done against you.

    Om du till exempel vill hämnas på någon som varit otrogen eller som dumpat dig, så bör straffet ha något med dejting/sex/trohet att göra.

    For example if you want revenge on someone who cheated or who dumped you, you should use a punishment with dating/sex/fidelity involved.

    Steg 4 / Step 4

    Gör en brainstorm kring lämpliga åtgärder för kategorin av hämnd du är ute efter. För att fortsätta exemplet ovan så kan du paja ditt offers nuvarande relation, fixa så att dennes nye partner är otrogen eller se till att han får en galning efter sig.

    Do a brainstorm of appropriate measures for the category of revenge you’re after. To continue the example above, you can sabotage your victim’s current relationship, such as getting his new partner to be unfaithful or ensure that he gets a madman after him.

    Använd din fantasi!

    Use your imagination!

    Steg 5 / Step 5

    Tänk ut hur du kan hämnas systematiskt.

    Figure out how you can systematically take revenge.

    Kanske kan en serie brev och foton som får den nya att tro att ni ännu ses bättre än bara en stor lögn vid ett enstaka tillfälle?

    Send your victim a series of letters and photographs that make your victim’s new partner believe that you are still together which is better than to tell just one big lie on one single occasion

    Steg 6 / Step 6

    Ranka dina systematiska hämndscheman från låg till hög i termer av troligt lyckat genomförande, krävd insats från dig samt grad av tillfredsställelse om du lyckas.

    Rank your systematic revenge schemes from low to high in terms of likely success, required input from you, and degree of satisfaction when you succeed.

    Den ideala hämnden ligger givetvis så högt som möjligt i dessa staplar, men ofta kan en ökad insats av arbete och kapital ge säkrare output för de andra två, egentligen viktigare parametrarna.

    The ideal, of course, is a revenge as strong as possible but this requires a lot of hard work and effort for it to turn out exactly as you want it to.

    Step 7 / Step 7

    Skrid till verket. Get to work. Och kom ihåg vilket ditt mål är medan du opererar, se till att ditt offer får lida på samma sätt som han fick dig att lida.

    And remember what your goals are while you are operating, ensure that your victim will suffer the same way as he made you suffer.

    Entry Filed under: politik . Entry Filed under: politics . Taggar: hämnd , revenge , laglig hämnd , hämnas , återgälda , straffa .

    Tags: revenge , revenge , revenge lawful , avenge , reciprocate , punish.

    The cache of the translated article can be found here:

    http://tinyurl.com/39tjtdx

    Note that the article she refers to in the opening paragraph that inspired her is this eHow article, “How To Get Legal Revenge”:

    http://www.ehow.com/how_2296915_get-legal-revenge.html

    The most incriminating part in the case of Assange is surely Step 3:

    For example if you want revenge on someone who cheated or who dumped you, you should use a punishment with dating/sex/fidelity involved.

    It is looking increasingly likely the allegations against Assange are a case of a jilted lover rather than any grand plot. At least, that’s how it initially started. Do you think the CIA would really choose or infiltrate someone with such an incriminating post as this on her blog to try and frame him?

    One possible scenario is that she was absolutely furious when she discovered that Assange – possibly perceived as a freedom fighting angel in her eyes who could do no wrong – had “cheated” on her with another woman. Mixed with what appears to be quite strong feminism beliefs and possible desire for revenge (as illustrated by the above blogpost) it’s possible that maybe she either coerced or somehow convinced the other woman to join her into reporting Assange to the police for “rape”. Alternatively, she may have decided to contact known enemies of Assange to see whether she could gain anything herself from framing him.

    Again, this is still pure speculation and people will have to make their own minds up but increasing evidence mounting about Anna Ardin are quite incriminating so far.

    The slightly concerning thing is that the Public Prosecutor is now being very cagey about giving any information about what exactly Assange is now charged with.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7656481.ab

    The most suspicious part of all however is why on Earth was Assange’s name issued by the Public Prosecutor when the center-right Expressen newspaper called them? The Public Prosecutor is not supposed to issue any names to the public or Press simply if two people walk into a police station and make an accusation about someone. And how did Expressen get tipped-off in the first place that it might be worth ringing the Public Prosecutor on suspicion that warrant had been issued for Assange? A good discussion of this crucial issue is here:

    http://amovingworld.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-was-leak-on-wikileaks-conducted.html

    If this wasn’t a plot from the beginning, then it is possible that powerful US interests may have at some stage pounced on the Public Prosecutor to try and muddy the legal process and turn it to their advantage.

  15. @Nicholas – Thanks for the nice english translations & summaries of what is going on. It’s somewhat difficult for me to go slogging through the Swedish text with google translator.

  16. @Popcorn – You’re welcome and thank you for the tip. You’ve provided possibly one of the most illuminating pieces of information yet to emerge about her.

  17. “And how did Expressen get tipped-off in the first place that it might be worth ringing the Public Prosecutor on suspicion that warrant had been issued for Assange?” – Nicholas

    I know some of the insinuation is that someone in the police force tipped off Expressen.

    Other possibilities is that the two women were chatty about the subject and one of their friends (or friends of friends) tipped off the paper.

    A 3rd likely possibility is that Anna, who not only works as a Press Secretary for the Brotherhood, & somehow got herself listed as a Press Secretary for Julian, has worked for GT/Expressen in the past tipped them off, as this is clearly news.

    Here is one person referencing that she was worked for GT/Expressen in a forum post:

    https://www.flashback.org/sp25004302

    I wouldn’t accept just a forum post as fact, but I also independently ran across the information, I think on one of her blogs/profiles somewhere.

    Sorry, I suck at Swedish to much to find the proof again, but I do know the documentation is out there.

  18. It looks like her resume on ardin.se contains documentation that she had a temporary position as as stand-in-Chief in the GT.

    “ett gediget cv med bland annat ett vikariat som vikarierande ledarskribent i GT.”

    I just don’t know Swedish well enough to find her resume via google cache.

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  20. @Popcorn, Thanks. That actually means that she is a “temporary stand-in Editor” for Gotlands Tidningen. Gotlands Tidningen is a small newspaper on the tiny Swedish holiday island of Gotland. However, many “conspiracy theorists” on the net have jumped on that and mistakenly thought GT refers to GT Expressen – a special section of Expressen newspaper (that originally “broke” the Assange “story”) that solely focuses on Gothenburg:

    http://gt.expressen.se/

    In fact, this is the paper she refers to:

    http://www.helagotland.se/gt/

    Incidentally, Ardin, along with three other girls, opened Gotland’s first lesbian nightclub in 2007 called “Klubb Feber”.

    http://tinyurl.com/3y5joxz

    Some might say this raises questions about what is her real sexuality although I’m not sure if it points evidence one way or the other.

    @Maria, thanks for the CV. An English translation can be found here:

    http://tinyurl.com/3ahgs3p

    She’s certainly media savvy as she’s freelanced for several newspapers and major media in Sweden including state television channel SVT:

    “Freelance assignments including SVT, SR P3 and several newspapers.”

    Her most recent job is listed as:

    “2009 – Political Secretary and Press Officer, Swedish Christian Social Democrats – Brotherhood Movement.”

    Which as is now known, is how she came into contact with Assange as he was a guest of the Swedish Christian Social Democrats in Sweden for the past week.

  21. @Nicholas – Thanks for clarifying the “GT” situation for me. So at this point, she is just an occasional freelance writer.

  22. Can anyone find the interview with the 20ish year old? I thought I recalled seeing it on aftonbladet.se along with the interview of the 30 year old. The meat of it was that they had consensual sex, but he went too far on Tuesday morning.

  23. Popcorn: If you needed some kind of translation, she says they had voluntary sex one night, then he “Went too far” another night. She “Put up strict boundaries” which he “ignored”.

    They went to the movies last saturday. In the evening they went their separate ways and at the party he went to that night he supposedly molested the other woman. They then met up again Monday and Tuesday is when she claimed he “went too far”.

  24. You are right on the spot. She is “the older woman 31 year” and as you can see from her CV a member of the swedish parlament for the Swedish Socialdemocratic Party.

    The swedish official media (TV news) had NO comment today sunday but it is generaly known in Sweden that the Socialdemocratic Party has big influence on TV -News.

    ( more information on http://www.flashback.org and
    http://aktivarum.wordpress.com/ )

    Greetings from Gothenburg

  25. Popcorn:

    Girl20 is still a mystery, although a few interresting leads are out there. My guess is that her name will be revealed sometime tomorrow.

    admin:

    Impressive work will all this. You are almost totally up to date. Do you have swedish backgound?

    ps. Maybe a small thing of teh matter, but apperently she felt the urge to reply a text of law to a guy that made clumsy attempts to approach her when she was practicing at the swedish embassy in Buenos Aires. Something is very wrong with this gal. If you need a translate, email me. ds

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  27. January 19th Anna Ardin wrote an “article” on her blog called “Seven steps for legal vengeance”.

    At the start of the article it reads “a girl fancys a guy that in return does not fancy the girl but fancys another girl behind the first girls back”.

    She removed this article before the allegations went public, but not before she had “consulted” with the police.

    Source: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KqxoRlB3Ub0J:annaardin.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/sjustegsmodell-for-laglig-hamnd/+sjustegsmodell+f%C3%B6r+laglig+h%C3%A4mnd&cd=1&hl=sv&ct=clnk&client=safari

    Anna Ardin isclose to aradical feminist, she does not thumb on her principals. She’s a very driven and self-righteous person. Which can be witnessed through her blog and essays.

  28. Good job with the translation Nicholas. And thanks for recommendation to our blog Aktivarum. I think our blog was the first source that actually suggested this was swedish radical feminists and not a CIA-plot.

    Australian men are well known for being cocky and go-forward types compared to swedish men and we have a serious problem with radical feminism (which is not the same as normal feminism) This gender-ideology-pseudoscience on Universities really give some women crazy ideas.

  29. By the way, the woman in the videos doing information work for the prosecution office, I am embarrased over both the content of her information as well as the fact that she seems to be as bad at english as Hencric “we care about small people” Swanberg.

  30. @Eric, Pistol and bmull

    Thanks for the comments.

    @bmull, the “condom” theory is one I haven’t heard yet and as far as I am aware, The Guardian are the first to report this. As I said in an earlier comment, these charges of “molestation” are going to depend very much on what difference between what the accusers and the law consider “molestation”. It’s a very wide ranging term in Sweden I understand and can include everything from verbal to physical assault.

    @Erik, you may be right that this is a culture clash between a “macho” Australian and a Swedish feminist although Assange doesn´t exactly strike you as the “typical” Australian macho type and he’s surely become sensitive to different cultures having traveled so much.

    @Pistol, I’m not sure if that evaluation reveals anything about the accuser that’s relevant to this issue but thanks for the info and comments.

  31. Wow. What a thread. I’ve been following the case closely as well. I’m from Stockholm. This thread is a good example of why blogs are better than the media.

    Some off the cuff comments.

    @Popcorn: have not seen any interview with the 20yo from Enköping. But I believe I have AA’s address and yes she lives on Södermalm. Also: she’s 31 today, not 30 – her b-day was in March.

    There has been talk about ‘consensual sex’ that in both cases turned into something else, yet with no hint or threat of violence. Yet I don’t see AA sleeping w JA – she’s obviously lesbian, if you look at her CV and seen what she wrote one of her masters theses on, and the other ‘toxic’ articles she writes, and combine that with the Gotland nightclub.

    There’s a bit of chicken and egg here. How did she become JA’s press secretary? What came first – the invite to speak for Brödraskapsrörelsen or AA? There is an obvious connection between the two. But what came first is important. And who contacted whom? Why would BR contact JA? How would they know he was in town? Would he have come to town otherwise?

    AA’s thesis about anti-Castro stuff and her work in Buenos Aires, along with her language skills in Spanish, all point to an agenda. I wouldn’t put it past the frat boys from Langley to dream this up. I wouldn’t put it past them to have already recruited her. And now exploit her to at least infiltrate PP/WL.

    That she did freelance work for the national television and radio channel 3 doesn’t have to mean much at all.

    @Popcorn: you say you want to dig deeper and find more CV info on her. By searching for what? She’s all over Google but I can’t find what you’re looking for.

    Here’s an article by her on her party blog. She’s objecting to the name ‘Broderskap’ – ‘brotherhood’. I’d say she’s very OTT. Two links, same article.

    http://www.tidningenbroderskap.se/index.php?page=13&ar_id=4738

    http://kristenvanster.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/broder_och_systrar/

    She goes back to the French revolution – you know, the ‘fraternité’ bit – and says the French revolution didn’t include women.

    These people seem brainwashed from diaper age. They’re not a group we Swedes are very familiar with (thank goodness). They are ‘very far out there’.

    What I can’t grab is who the F put JA in contact with this girl – and even if it was through BR: why did he make her his press secretary? And I don’t see him even trying to have sex with her. But I can tell you for a fact that these fringe groups in Sweden are *very* scary – very very – and a lot of people fear them.

    I can see her attacking JA through a police complaint. I just can’t see her sleeping with JA or vice versa. If she’s the 30yo then when her background makes it out this whole thing is going to both blow over and get really ugly.

    This AA is really scary.

    At the same time, the activity in removing her name from press statements (it’s still on Christian’s copy) and her blocking all her blogs – there’s something going on there alright. It’s just I’m not sure if any of them – Falkvinge, Assange, anybody else – knows the whole story.

    I’d put my trust for now in Finné. She seems a very stable, very trustworthy type. Keeping the case open does not necessarily mean she’s after JA – she might be looking into nailing the two girls. IMHO.

    Cheers.

  32. What I was referring to was the statement from her about a incident (page 5)

    “I början av min praktikperiod har jag ett problem med en av de lokalanställda, som under en förevändning att det var ett skämt bland annat skickade krav på “gentjänster” i utbyte mot information jag behövde för arbetet och inviter med sexuell anspelning via mejl. Personen upphörde dock genast med beteendet när jag skickade en länk till en lagtext, men fortsatte under hela min praktikperiod kommentera att jag inte förstod (skämt).”

    Translation:

    “At the beginning of my internship, I had a problem with one of the local workers who “jokingly” asked me for “favors” in exchange for information I needed for work and making sexual references via email. However, the person ceased immediately when I sent a link to them of the how the law stands regarding his behavior, but he kept joking about it through the entire internship.”

    It doesn´t really reveal anything, although it goes in line with the personality she, so far, seems to have. This documented incident above is just another situation where she, allegedly, where harassed sexually, and shows her likelyhood to file charges. I´m not saying that this incident is made up, it´s just another incident involving Anna, sexual harassment and quoting the law.

  33. Big headlines again. A former prosecutor goes on the attack against both current prosecutors. ‘It would have been gratifying for the person they hung up if they’d explained their decisions.’

    http://svd.se

    http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/alhem-forklara-er_5172395.svd

    ‘First: it’s not good if an arrest warrant like that is made public. This is about a well known individual suspected of a serious crime. The effect was huge.’

    ‘At this point [Finné’s reversal] it would have been nice to explain the reasons for the decision. She [Finné] should have calmly and collected explained to the world press why there was no longer any suspicion of rape. Otherwise [Assange] is hurt badly.’

  34. This was fascinating, thanks! I hope you keep it up. Ultimately, WikiLeaks as an organization is so much more important than Julian Assange’s sexual proclivities. And yet…color me disappointed. I actually bought into his whole “…capable, generous men do not create victims–they nurture victims…”shtick. For a minute, or two, or three, he was my (okay, I am shallow) very sexy hero. The saddest thing about this whole episode is that WikiLeaks has been tarnished and weakened, which means the “bastards” will once again win.

  35. @bmull – Thanks for the article link on the condom usage.

    I think for anyone looking for a more normal, non-conspiracy slathered explanation that would make a lot more sense of the charges.

    It makes sense of the lines about him not understanding what “no” means, yet them still engaging in consensual activities.

    And it also makes sense of how the women could be legitimately pissed off. And this wouldn’t require hypersensitive feminism.

    Now if the issue does come down to condom usage, how does that really come about? Did he cajole the women with stuff like “come on baby, it just doesn’t feel the same” and they went for it? Or are they saying he slipped one past the goalie without the uniform on?

    Condom usage during sex has to be one of the most obvious, least joyous processes. You have to take a break, tear open the package, roll on the cold slimy thing & then try to pick up where you left off. It’s not a process you just don’t notice or forget about.

    There is still a lot we don’t know about girl20 for those who are still holding out hope for some sort of international conspiracy. But by the same token, this may be just as easily explained by normal sex issues.

  36. Something that does bother me is that it appears that these women are slipping out accusations to the media via “friends close to the women” while still hiding under the cloak of anonymity, while Julian Assange does not get the same playing field, much less know what the actual accusations are.

  37. The condom thing is something we speculated about a while ago. But I don’t think it’s plausible.

    @Popcorn: ‘it appears that these women are slipping out accusations to the media’

    That’s assuming Expressen didn’t just make it all up. One thing Expressen will never be accused of is good journalism.

  38. I suppose it doesn’t matter to anyone about the civilian Afghanis who are now open to murder and molestation due to the illegal release of classified documents. It doesn’t really matter to me, either. Also, I don’t care if this Wikileaks guy is a rapist. Once you buy and publish secret military documents, I think you’ve pretty much given up on the whole “morals” thing. Anything goes with this guy, and more power to him. (I’d say God Bless Him, but I’m sure that wouldn’t go over too well with God, or his anti-American supporters) Still, F** the man! I’m sure the CIA won’t do anything underhanded. He’ll live a long and free life in a society open to free living, loving, and thinking, such as we are blessed with here in CT, USA. As long as he doesn’t actually come into the USA, cause of course he’d be arrested.

  39. PS. What’s happening now is playing right into the Pentagon’s hands. Everyone’s forgot the war and the bloodshed. It’s a distraction is what JA said. The discussion of the war diaries etc has all died down.

  40. @GamestarP Where you writing all that with a straight face? We obviously don’t live in the same country. And I bet you don’t really care about the Afghanis all that much either.

  41. It seems pretty clear Ardin invited Assange to speak in Stockholm. She must have known he was on the way. That seminar can’t have been Assange’s primary reason for coming to Sweden.

    I’ve invited Julian Assange from WikiLeaks to Sweden, he’s coming!!
    6:46 PM Aug 10th via Twitter for Android

    When asked where and when, she responded:

    11 o’clock, haven’t found a venue yet…
    7:41 PM Aug 10th via Twitter for Android in reply to telecomix

    Then a day later:

    Julian Assange, WikLeaks, seminar 11:00 in the LO building! Register with Jan[at]broderskap.se, priority for the press
    2:32 PM Aug 11th via Twitter for Android

    (A day later they were already sold out.)

    So she invited him. But does anyone know if they knew each other before this?

  42. @GamestarP: Oh go blow it. No one here will pay you any attention or ever agree with you. You might get a few people annoyed but I wouldn’t even count on that.

  43. @Popcorn: ‘It makes sense of the lines about him not understanding what “no” means, yet them still engaging in consensual activities.’

    Uh – feminists in Sweden are a bit different. They remark that their ‘sisters’ in other countries envy them. That they can say ‘yes’. The Swedish feminists laugh and explain that feminism is not about saying ‘yes’ – it’s about saying ‘no’. This is a very common thing with the Swedish feminists and has been for years.

    (Yeah it’s a bit creepy. Welcome to Sweden. ;) )

  44. @Popcorn: you’re also forgetting there are condom automats and stores everywhere where you can buy them, the supermarket, the tobacconist, the kiosk, everything but the drive-in restaurant (and that’s probably coming). The idea being ‘no unwanted pregnancies’. This has been a norm since before I was born – for perhaps 40-50 years already.

    I’d imagine most single Swedish girls have condoms at home anyway. And Assange is too smart to even consider unprotected sex IMHO. Remember: he’s -smart-.

  45. “Uh – feminists in Sweden are a bit different. They remark that their ‘sisters’ in other countries envy them. That they can say ‘yes’. The Swedish feminists laugh and explain that feminism is not about saying ‘yes’ – it’s about saying ‘no’.”

    Rick, can you please rephrase this? i don’t understand how swedish feminism is different from this line. er, i am a feminist in u.s.

    genuine curiosity, many thanks.

  46. Rephrase? It’s just what it says. You’re talking about different cultures. Then there’s the influence from Norway. A lot of this fits into the picture forming of Ms Ardin.

  47. Hi Rick,

    it’s simply your phrasing I don’t quite understand; perhaps i am being dense and i apologize. i don’t want to derail the thread, but in my efforts to understand the story, this kind of comment keeps coming up in the bad google translations of the swedish boards.

    when you say, in the second sentence, “That they can say ‘yes’” does “they” mean the swedish feminists can say yes? or the envious sisters in other countries can say yes? if it’s swedish women saying yes, then why would that laugh and say it’s all about saying “no”?

    btw, i’m in agreement with most of the assessments made above, i think it’s a regrettable effort to discredit Assange. can’t bring myself to buy into the whole CIA conspiracy thing, but that is why i want to clarify the comments that people make–in passing–about “swedish feminism.

    thanks

  48. I think you answered your own question. Norwegian and Swedish feminists – this is really a strange thing. Sweden’s had more equality fifty years ago than most countries have today. Or didn’t you notice that the two prosecutors in the story were women?

    The militant feminists in Norway and Sweden aren’t about equality – they’re against sex. They write things like ‘heterosexual sex is unnatural and demeaning’. That a woman shouldn’t be ‘penetrated’ because that’s ‘humiliating’. And stuff like that.

    Got your attention? LOL

    And that type of talk is what came out in a rush in that interview with the 30yo/Ardin and Aftonbladet – straight out of their playbook. Those phrases are so worn out. They’re better known than the national anthem.

  49. Reminds me of the film ‘Play Misty for Me’ and even if there were any truth in his sexual exploits, like Clint in that film, Assange might take a little more care over which loonies he takes to bed, or more advisedly to masturbate, instead.

    The whole story and all information on the Net of the characters involved, give off an unpleasant smell, and a ring of the usual incompetence of tyrannical Mafia types, controlling this world with redneck propaganda.

    One day, (and it’s coming fast) the super-rich will lose their power. The clean-up is in transition! (if he’s not assassinated) But the wagon’s rolling, and can’t be stopped.

  50. Assange doesn’t take loonies to bed. Swedes like to think foreigners don’t understand their country, but we’re talking about Assange here. That man was not born yesterday. He’s got the Pentagon breathing down his neck, watching his every move. He grew up in a family suffering from a similar situation. He’s not going to suddenly get reckless.

  51. @Rick – You have stated that Julian is too smart not to wear condoms & too smart to take loonies to bed. You are throwing too much hero worship on Julian. He is human and prone to mistakes and errors in judgment just like everyone else.

    If you really think Julian is so incredibly smart to do stupid things like the ones you mentioned above take a good solid look at who who press secretary was in Sweden and what she has been up to. He should start looking a heck of a lot more human to you right about now.

  52. No. I am basing this assessment on his character. Anyone can see this character. As this is all pure speculation anyway, the best and safest road to take is the one with the best probabilities.

    I’ve enumerated why I regard it as folly to think Assange would show any other character when his every step is carefully calculated and when he grew up in an environment where this was practiced regularly.

    I agree with you about the press secretary. But that’s no reason to call the man a fool. Because he isn’t.

    And what’s not known at this impasse is who elected her to be press secretary. Did he do it? Or did the PP do it? The only place her name was found was on the official PP announcement. It’s since been removed (but remains at Christian’s blog – he’s our MEP for the PP in Brussels).

    We don’t know who put her there or why.

    Then consider this: in Stockholm Assange is surrounded by a big group of presumably savvy individuals. The PP themselves put her name on the release. Are you saying they understood her to be flaky but refrained from warning Julian? I find that very unlikely.

    But equating this – and possibly an infiltration by Langley – with the common use of condoms, something that got paraded all over Friends (Joey and the rest) for ten years, to contend that Julian Assange somehow doesn’t know about AIDS and HIV – that’s just nonsense.

    Hero worship? Who? You want to take a second look at the title of this article? I don’t throw accolades around lightly. I rarely throw them around at all. And no, I don’t know Julian personally. None of us do. But to wildly presume that this careful individual fighting the Pentagon – who it’s suggested did that incredible social engineering trick mentioned in the book Underground – should suddenly break character and turn into a complete fool where a woman is concerned…

    As I said: we’re all speculating here. And to lean on a story about being a fool in this fashion is flaky speculation. Ta.

  53. @admin: ‘However, my concern has nothing to do with the fact that she is engaged in anti Castro activity’

    But if that were the case then you have another possible connection: Reporters Sans Frontières. Yes it’s a stretch but then again what isn’t?

  54. In the event of a possible intelligence connection, Anna Ardin worked as a trainee (praktikant) under the foreign office at several locations in Sweden and abroad, two of them of particular interest.

    In 2004 at the defense unit at the swedish embassy in Washington DC organizing conferences and having a partial assignment to the Swedish military intelligence MUST.

    In 2005 AA worked with civil crisis management at the foreign office unit for European security policy in Stockholm.

    http://resources.statsvet.uu.se/repository/1/polmag/PraktikutvVT05_del2.PDF

    FWIW.

  55. @Abel,

    you are mixing the info in the document in Swedish. It is a report by several persons. Her report is on pages 3-5 and she was not at the defense unit nor did she work with European security policy that was other persons.

  56. Maybe to understand how sick this whole “ultra feminism” in Sweden is remember that the ambassador for Sweden in Brazil at the time AA worked in Argentina was Margareta Winberg, MW is the biggest supporter of a crazy professor in Uppsala (Eva Lundgren), Sweden that claims that in Sweden men commit ritual murder on innocent child on regular basis. After all those allegations she is still working at Uppsala University, why? because she has the support of influential people like MW. AA was educated under the influence of crazy women like Eva Lundgren.

    http://www.nkmr.org/english/uppsala_university_burns_a_book_on_recovered_memories.htm

    http://www.thelocal.se/2692/20051215/

    Google : Eva Lundgren ritual, and you will get a very clear picture on how crazy this “ultra feminists” are. Please do not mix them with real feminists!!

  57. @GT – Please read “Translation”‘s comment & see if his/her comment is accurate. We don’t want misinformation going viral. We want to tease out the facts and get to the bottom of what is going on. Even if the answer turns out to be much more mundane.

  58. Pingback: Twitted by dredeyedick

  59. @Translation!

    Wow, Thanks.

    I made a mistake. It is not Anna Ardin that worked at the two assignments in Washington DC and Stockholm.

    To repeat: It was not Anna Ardin that worked at the two assignments in Washington DC and Stockholm.

    So forget about it. I was simply too tired… sorry about that.

  60. Pingback: Assangeaffären, Åklagarmyndighetens agerande och Radikalfeminsm « Aktivarum

  61. @Rick: “How did she become JA’s press secretary? What came first – the invite to speak for Brödraskapsrörelsen or AA?”

    That’s a very good question. We also know that even the Pirate Party removed her name from their website as her Press Secretary. The original Press release is here:

    http://www.mashtechworld.com/2010/08/18/swedish-pirate-get-together-to-host-new-wikileaks-servers-piratpa/

    The revised Press release is here:

    http://www.piratpartiet.se/feed-item/swedish-pirate-party-host-new-wikileaks-servers?sms_ss=digg

    “The anti-Castro stuff and her work in Buenos Aires, along with her language skills in Spanish, all point to an agenda. I wouldn’t put it past the frat boys from Langley (CIA) to dream this up. I wouldn’t put it past them to have already recruited her. And now exploit her to at least infiltrate WikiLeaks.”

    We have to be careful here as it’s starting to sound very James Bond. Could the CIA have been guaranteed that Assange would jump into bed with her?

    @Pistol “This documented incident above is just another situation where she, allegedly, where harassed sexually, and shows her likelyhood to file charges.”

    Thanks for highlighting that part. The document was so long that I wasn’t sure what you were referring to. I see the relevance now to this case in regards what you see as her “eagerness” to resort to the law in anything she considers sexual harassment.

    @Rick again, “Big headlines again. A former prosecutor goes on the attack against both current prosecutors. ‘It would have been gratifying for the person they hung up if they’d explained their decisions.”

    This is one of the most crucial parts of the whole issue. Why did the Public Prosecutor and Expressen publish his name so quickly and who tipped-off Expressen? It isn’t normal to publish someone’s name in cases like this. For instance, here’s a story in the Swedish press about someone suspected of murder and they are only referred to as a “41-year-old” – and that’s for murder!

    http://www.dn.se/sthlm/rattegang-gamla-stan-skottdrama-tyska-stallplan-april-41-aring-stockholms-tingsratt-vardnadstvist-1.906384

    Why wasn’t Assange referred to as simply a “39-year-old” then until the facts were established?

    @bon_fim, Ultimately, WikiLeaks as an organization is so much more important than Julian Assange’s sexual proclivities.

    Absolutely. And this entire episode shifts attention away from that although nevertheless, it’s important to at least try to work out what’s happened here if only to shed some light on what has been very controversial and mysterious incident. I hope that this controversy is resolved justly and legally though so that attention can shift back to the important work WikiLeaks are doing.

    @Popcorn, Something that does bother me is that it appears that these women are slipping out accusations to the media via “friends close to the women” while still hiding under the cloak of anonymity, while Julian Assange does not get the same playing field, much less know what the actual accusations are.

    Yes I noticed the “sources close to the women” quote for the first time in The Guardian. Although I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it if they’re true. I’m sure that Assange could also issue similar statements through friends or close sources but maybe he has nothing to hide and anything he says, he’s comfortable with it coming straight from his own mouth?

    @Gamestar, I suppose it doesn’t matter to anyone about the civilian Afghanis who are now open to murder and molestation due to the illegal release of classified documents.

    I completely understand your feelings but we also have to ask the question, how many more lives may the documents save if their release helps bring the invasion of Afghanistan to an end earlier than would have been the case without them? They have done a lot to turn world public opinion against the war and the more public pressure there is to end the invasion, the sooner it will be over. It is a very difficult question and WikiLeaks did even ask The Pentagon for help censoring the names of innocents but they refused. In the end, I’m sure WikiLeaks did their best with the limited resources they have.

    @Abel, Thanks for the info but be very careful when translating from Swedish to English. The plot is already James Bond enough without mistakenly saying she’s worked for Swedish intelligence services! @Translation, thanks very much for clearing-up that mistake quickly before things got out of control.

    @Erik Larsson, Rick and anyone else talking about “militant feminism”, Be careful not to get too carried away with this as it could be offensive to feminists in general to dismiss her as some kind of “militant feminist loon”. Just because she may be a staunch feminist doesn’t mean that she’s “mentally ill” in some way. However, I understand that some people may be concerned such feelings could “inflame” her anger if this is a case of a “jilted lover” although we really don’t know yet as it’s all wild speculation.

    I think enough has been established now about AA for everyone to guess at what kind of personality she may be. There now seems three important questions to shed anymore light on her dealings with Assange:

    1. How did she become Assange’s Press Secretary during his visit to Sweden? Was it pre-arranged by her, Assange or someone else?

    2. What exactly do the molestation charges pertain to?

    Since an arrest warrant was initially issued, it initially seem they are serious. But since the arrest warrant was withdrawn only hours later by a senior prosecutor, it would seem they’re not that serious. Which leads onto…

    3. Why did the Public Prosecutor:

    a) Issue Assange’s name instead of reply “no comment” when Expressen phoned them sniffing around for a story.

    b) Refuse to give a reason for withdrawing the arrest warrant

    c) Make no effort to even contact Assange to confirm or deny the allegations.

    By the way, on this last issue, there’s a very good clear English explanation of the public prosecution process in Sweden and how it was applied in this case here. It seems that an accusation of rape in Sweden – regardless of whether there’s any convincing evidence – is immediately treated as of the “highest suspicion” and an arrest warrant is instantly issued without even having to consult the accused first:

    http://ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/the-legal-twists-and-turns-of-the-rape-charges-against-julian-assange/#comment-17563

  62. New information from Flashback forum:

    Police report has reference number 0201-k246336-10, assault.

    Investigating policeman Mats Gellin, investigative division ku / f, Telephone +46-8-4010838.

    Plaintiff is Anna Bernardin.

    Since rape has been closed the other girl does not arise.

    Anna Bernardin notification is active and she is the notifier.

  63. I don’t have the time to look up the link right now, it’s on the site Flashback and about a whole different matter. But Anna Ardin is mentioned and if I remember correctly she makes lectures about sexual harassment and the male “master suppression techniques”. During one of these lectures one of the males in the audience were checking his notes. Anna Ardin then reports him for sexual harassment because he obviously must be discriminating against her for being a woman and using one of the male “master suppression techniques” to try to make her feel invisible. After the man learns about this he contacts her to apologize and explain himself. Anna Ardin’s response is to once again report him for sexual harassment because now he’s using the “master suppression technique” of belittling her feelings/experience. It’s something like that if I remember correctly.

    I’m a feminist but this woman is a FANATIC that makes it harder for the rest of us…

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  65. “Why did the Public Prosecutor and Expressen publish his name so quickly” -Nicholas

    As far as the paper is concerned, I believe the excuse is that Julian Assange is a “Public Persona” such as a celebrity or a politician and thus does not deserve the same protection as a more private person.. Someone over on Reddit claiming to be a Swedish reporter answered that question.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/d3w6q/iama_scandinavian_journalist_in_a_national/c0xddzm

    “and who tipped-off Expressen?” – Nicholas

    Candidates could include a police officer, Anna or one of the girls themselves. But at the end of the day, nobody is very good a keeping secrets, especially big secrets. It very well could have gone from any of the above to a friend & then their friend until it finally fell into the lap of a reporter. We saw how fast this story spread. Why should we think a word of mouth rumor would spread any slower. According to the Expressing, the 20ish year old girl had already texted her friends after the alleged incident with Julian. Odds are they wanted an update or were kept in the loop too.

    Direct tip offs are still a possibility. Reporters are always trying to make sure they have a decent in with the police to get the big scoops. And maybe Anna went into publicity mode. Who knows at this point.

  66. This is strangely similar to what happened to Al Gore here in Portland, OR.

    He was accused of improper sexual advances toward a masseuse after receiving a massage treatment in his hotel room.

    An investigation revealed she had made similar claims against others that did not pass the smell test.

    Charges were later dropped.

  67. Do not get carried away use Occam’s razor, no conspiracy, no CIA etc. Just a simple party that, literally, ended in the wrong direction.

  68. @J – A story like certainly sounds extraordinary, perhaps reliant and needs documentation & references to be deemed credible. And the value of that story will depend on who has told it. If that is from her own mouth, it might be quite valuable as it serves to identify her frame of mind.

  69. @Pelle, thanks. I suspect an English person has found the police report on the net and translated it online and as you say, “Ardin” translates as “Bernadin” for some reason in Google.

    So it is now confirmed by Swedish police that Anna Ardin is one of the women making the allegations.

    @J, I’m not sure what link you are referring to?

    @Popcorn, “As far as the paper is concerned, I believe the excuse is that Julian Assange is a “Public Persona” such as a celebrity or a politician and thus does not deserve the same protection as a more private person.

    Why have they never issued famous names in the past then? I’ve been told that there have been cases of sports stars and other famous people being in exactly the same situation as Assange and no names have been issued. It would be useful if someone out there could give some concrete examples of when this has happened in the past in Sweden.

    You say: “According to Expressen, the 20ish year old girl had already texted her friends after the alleged incident with Julian.”

    I always thought this is a very strange way to react to a “rape”. Would a girl’s first reaction to text her friends about it? If so, yes, those friends, along with AA and others who were in the loop may have tipped-off Expressen but we need something a bit more concrete than that to get to the bottom of things.

    @Buck Mulligan, There have been suggestions on here that it could be something like that. There is sketchy evidence that AA has a history of being a bit too “eager” to call the law when she considers a molestation has taken place although it’s mainly based on second-hand reports with no concrete police reports or evidence.

  70. I think that it should be added that Anna Ardin is the press spokesperson for Broderskapsrörelsen (Christian and muslim Socialdemocrats). Broderskapsrörelsen has recently published a new magazine to promote a dialogue between muslims and Socialdemocrats.

    That magazine is MUCH HATED by different “nationalist groups” in Sweden. There was a discussion in Sweden about initiating a campaign against Broderskapsrörelsen.

    I think that it should be noted that the blog that first wrote about Ardin and Assange is run by NAZIS. ( https://gotiskaklubben.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/anna-ardin-varldens-mest-hatade-kvinna-just-nu/ )

    Here is the magazine, the name Ardin is on page two. http://aip.nu/files/AKIP100817E.html

    I dont know whether Ardin is the woman that went to the police or not, but I VERY MUCH RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN ANALYZING THE SITUATION!

    /T

  71. Looked for the story again since I felt uncertain about what I had read so long ago. It could involve another woman with A at the beginning of her first name working at the exact same place as Anna with the same issues. A woman named Annika. It’s possible that I mixed them up since they work with the same issues.

    Some links in Swedish about the case I talked about…

    http://tanjabergkvist.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/ett-skrackexempel-pa-genusvaldet/

    http://www.svd.se/opinion/ledarsidan/mansgrisigt-att-bladdra-i-papper-pa-universitet_2897797.svd

    http://www.axess.se/public/document/beslut.pdf

    The post on Flashback mentions this Annika person as the one to contact regarding sexual harassment complaints and gives the link as an example of what she can do. The links doesn’t say it’s Annika but the person writing about it on Flashback may have other information regarding the case.
    Perhaps Annika is the one doing all the lectures for example.
    My mind jumped to conclusions, I’m sorry.

    It does however say something about the mindset of the people working at that particular department at Uppsala University…

  72. @J – Don’t worry about jumping to conclusions. The point is that we help each other out and debunk each other’s bogus ideas so that we all come closer to the truth faster, rather than never at all.

  73. Are nazis behind the mob against Anna Ardin?

    http://ligator.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/are-nazis-behind-the-mob-against-anna-ardin/

    Posted by jerlerup den augusti 23, 2010

    This is something I have hesitated to write about but now I have to write the story. I can do it now because the story, and the name of the woman I will write about, is public on the internet.

    When the founder of Wikileaks recently visited Sweden he was accused of being a rapist. According to Expressen, he sexually harassed a woman in Södermalm, Stockholm. Two or three days later, he supposedly raped another woman in Enköping.

    This article does not deal with the accusations against Assange, but with the mob that nowclaims that Anna Ardin is one of the women behind the accusations.

    Whether she is one of the women that visited the police or not, is impossible to say. But it is very clear that Swedish nazis were the first once to claim that Anna Ardin is one of the women.

    Why did they do that?

    Swedish nazis and rightwing groups has for some time been very angry at the Christian Socialdemocrats, Broderskapsrörelsen, that has started to work with Swedish muslims. Last week it published a new magazine, ”Islam”. On this pressrelease one can read that Ardin is the project leader.

    The magazine can be read here, on page two is her name and the title ”leader of the project”.

    Swedish rightwing groups and nazis indicated well before last week, that they were to start some kind of campaign against Broderskapsrörelsen and the new magazine.

    Different rightwing blogs talked about this the weeks before the magazine was made public. And the very week that the magazin was published the campaign the allegations against Anna Ardin, who is the head of the project, is made public, and the nazi-opponents of the magazin she is responsible for, are the first once to write about it. An accident? hardly!

    Anna Ardin has witten much POSITIVE ARTICLES about islam on her blog during the recent years and has been a public opponent of Sverigedemokraterna, a rightwing party ANTI-MUSLIM party, that probably will enter the parliament this year, too. And she has been much hated for this. ( As can be ween in this google search. )

    Gotiska klubben

    The mob against Anna Ardin was started on Flashback.info but it was made public at this blog: https://gotiskaklubben.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/anna-ardin-varldens-mest-hatade-kvinna-just-nu/

    If you look at the blog you will find that it attacks jews, and it is also very hateful against islam.

    So now the internet globally is filled with hate against the woman that allegedly has ”accused Assange of being a rapist”.

    Ardin is also very hated in Sweden because of her work with womens rights, and right wing extremists were the first once to attack Ardin because of her views of feminism.

    I dont know anything about the accusations against Assange. I know that celebrities has raped women before, but I do also know that intelligence services has used women to destroy the lifes of people before.

    BUT PLEASE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT THE PEOPLE THAT INITIATED THE CAMPAIGN AGAINST ANNA ARDIN ARE RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS AND NAZIS!!!

    Everyone has the right to be ”innocent until proven guilty”, Anna Ardin too! Please remember that!

  74. There are such evidence. The first blog that published is was Gotiska Klubben, tha link to that site can be found on my blog. You can analyze Flashback.info too and look at WHO were the first once to write about it.

    I dont know what is true about Assange, BUT WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT THE FIRST ONCE THAT NAMED ANNA ARDIN WERE SWEDISH NAZIS.

    Tha accusations against Assange is one thing. I agree with what you write about that this possibly is a smear campaign.

    But something stinks. There might be more smear campaigns and more desinformation that we belived at first.

    http://ligator.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/are-nazis-behind-the-mob-against-anna-ardin/

  75. Dont simpliy things Popcorn. We already know that something is rotten here. We must ve careful not to draw to early conclusions…

    /Torbjörn
    (Swede)

  76. Jerlerup, who gives a damn who found out that it was Anna Ardin?

    What matters is if they are correct or not. And they were correct. If that had NOT been the case, your crusade against nazis would be interesting.

    Now you’re only making a fool out of yourself.

  77. @jerlerup
    …so what you are essentially setting up is that anyone who criticizes Anna is either a Nazi or is working with the Nazis. That sounds like you just Godwined any discussion on this subject that might be critical of a person who has made allegations against Assange. It almost sounds as if you are attempting to make this issue undebatable for fear that anyone who does… must be a Nazi!

    Look, I don’t care who is claiming what. What I do want to know, is what the truth is. As far as I am concerned, what you are bringing up is just a diversion from the main subject be it true or not.

    As for not drawing early conclusions, I whole heartedly agree with you on that point. Right now there are few facts and a lot of speculation. Some speculation is good as it is a method of asking questions. What ultimately matters the most is digging out the facts & living with those fact no matter what they are.

  78. @jerlerup, I’d agree with Lucky Luke and Popcorn on that issue. Does it really matter who said it was her first? The important point is the police themselves have confirmed it was her – so I think we can rule out a Nazi plot to frame her!

    Meanwhile this is a very interesting interview by Al Jazeera with the public prosecutor. Note her absolute refusal to answer the question:

    “Why did nobody attempt to contact Mr Assange?”

    She gets very uptight when asked about this very very crucial part of this entire scandal:

  79. Swedish nazis? My God, jerlerup, you are delirious.

    Just for the record, AA is confirmed to be one of the women.

  80. And, damn, Karin Rosander is truly a embarrassment for anyone who calls themselfs swedish. I couldn´t even finish watching that clip.

  81. I find this forum very well informed and level headed, so I would like to make a contribution with a theory of what might have happened.

    First a recap of what has been discussed already:
    * AA is involved with the invitation of JA to speak at Broderskaps. She gets all fired up because she sees herself getting a bit of careerboosting attention. She acts like a pop star groupie, in essence.
    * I think she is probably bisexual. Indicated by the fact that she did claim she had sex with JA, and by that lesbian club on Gotland she was part of starting.
    * Something sexual happens between them and she is discontent for some reason. She does admit it was consensual to start with. He may have dumped one of these chicks for the other and they get ticked off over that. See the “7 points for revenge” bit…
    * So they decide to do it the legal way. In one of those “revenge” articles referred above there is a warning for not doing something illegal yourself, so the y”consult” with the cops about what they can get caught for themselves and what will be risk free.
    * Once they have talked with the police about rape, the police are obliged to continue with the process even if the woman does not. “Allmant atal” in Swedish. The State against JA, not her. So the legal process is on.

    *** Here is what I guess regarding the bit people seem puzzled about above: How did the information leak?

    I think she leaked it herself! To start with, at least. She has worked for that paper, GT/Expressen, so she may have friends there that she trusts. And Expressens main rival Aftonbladet is just about to score a scoop by publishing a piece by JA. Bingo! here is a chance! So the journalists calls up the attorney and asks a few questions that make it seem that they know more than they do, by showing that they know quite a lot already. The attorney blunders or is simply too stupid, or she is a feminazi as well? Who knows? But there does not need to be a leak from the attorneys office to start with, it may have been provoked by GT/Expressen, using AAs info.

    * I do not subscribe to any conspiracy theory. It is too far fetched. AA is too volatile for any spook’s taste, a loose cannon. But once the news break they are all over it of course, like flies on shit. Who can blame them, actually. They quickly figure out that they will get the blame, in part and by some, so they might as well get some use for it.

    Great job everyone! I am impressed with what I have read above.

  82. One thing I think most of us can agree on is that publishing the allegations against Julian before a proper investigation could be done has caused harm. IF Julian is innocent, his reputation has been forever tarnished. IF Julian is guilty, both women will be dragged through the mud & speculated about until it is fully investigated & at that the women may be reluctant to get more involved in investigation or prosecution as it creates a bigger mess for them. Just my 2 cents.

  83. Feminism has taken over the rules of law i Sweden.
    If anyone is thinking of visiting this country you hould not talk to or look at a woman more than necessary.
    In this country every man is seen as a true potential rapist. :)

  84. What is a Press Secretary in Sweden and how do you get in such a position? Mr. Assange is one of the two spokesmen of Wikileaks. At least over here in Germany, Mr. Schmitt, the other speaker, categorically denies that there is such thing as a Press Secretary in the ranks of Wikileaks.

  85. It was a nice place here, thanks admin & popcorn. Sad that now the usual wind borne internet sand starts to fill up the comments.

  86. I really don’t understand the hate being unleashed at feminists here. Have feminists replaced the CIA as the conspiracy theorist target of choice in Sweden? Since when was it a thought crime to not want to be sexually harassed? Some feminists may hold extreme views on penetration being an inherently dominant act, but this does not make them “mentally unstable” or “crazy,” just far outside the norm.

    It is impossible for a forum like this to determine what happened unless one of the people involved wants to lay out what happened during sex. The likelihood of that happening is about zero. Until then, all this work seems like little more than an attempt at character assassination by trying to paint AA as unstable or crazy. That is, it’s the exact same thing everyone is rightly accusing Expressen of in regards to Assange.

    Both Julian and AA are fairly radical characters. They might both be good people (shocking!) who happen to have fundamentally different understandings of what happened. That happens with sex. This is a private matter that was needlessly smeared across the front page.

  87. Pugget, are you Swedish? Have you spent much time in Sweden? If you had, you might have noticed the inquisition that is going on…

  88. Great blog guys (and girls), I’ve been reading with great interest.

    Has it occurred to anyone else but me that perhaps the first prosecutor was actually a whistle-blower, knowing that naming JA at that early stage of the prosecution process would undoubtedly derail the process before it had even begun and thus getting him off the hook?

  89. The only whistle you would hear around her would be the wind through her ears… No, no whistle blower, I don’t think so at all, my friend.

  90. It is a possibility, and it surely embarrassed the chief prosecutor enough to put promptly the lid on. Perhaps the case against JA would have been stronger had they had the time to prepare?

  91. @Pistol, Agreed. The way the Public Prosecutor handles the Al Jazeera interview is poor. It only incriminates them more when she won’t answer a simple question – “Why wasn’t Mr Assange contacted immediately?” Funny how they have no problem saying “No comment” now, but not when it really mattered.

    @Celsius, I think you’ve suggested one of the most plausible explanations yet. As you say, it seems more likely that this was a personal vendetta which powerful interests may have hijacked at some stage to turn to their advantage. However, note that she HAS NOT worked for GT/Expressen as far as we known. It was discovered by someone here that she was a “temporary deputy editor for GT” but the paper she refers to isn’t GT/Expressen – it’s Gotland Tidningar – a small newspaper on the Swedish island of Gotland! More on this here:

    http://nicholasmead.com/2010/08/21/how-to-smear-a-hero/#comment-1575

    @Popcorn, absolutely right. The main aim of the accusers here was defamation. Whether it was the women or more powerful interests, they’ve achieved their aim. They haven’t stopped WikiLeaks however and are unlikely to do so which is the most important thing as I’m sure even Assange would agree.

    @Jon, Please don’t bring the anti-feminist thing into this. We’ve been through that earlier and this shouldn’t be used a sexist excuse to have a go at feminists although I appreciate you put a smiley at the end so I’ll assume it’s tongue in cheek!

    @With fame comes flame, Thanks and I’ll try to make sure that the comments don’t get too wild but in the spirit of WikiLeaks openness, I’m trying to allow the debate to be as open as possible.

    @Pugget, You say: “It is impossible for a forum like this to determine what happened unless one of the people involved wants to lay out what happened during sex. The likelihood of that happening is about zero. Until then, all this work seems like little more than an attempt at character assassination by trying to paint AA as unstable or crazy. That is, it’s the exact same thing everyone is rightly accusing Expressen of in regards to Assange.”

    You’re absolutely right that no one on here can possibly know what happened in the bedroom. It’s certainly not supposed to be a character assassination though – just an early transparent look at who’s making the accusations and the likelihood of them being genuine, considering Assange’s sensitive political position at the moment.

    @Christus, That would have to be one hell of a dumb prosecutor! To defame him with the label of “rapist” for the rest of his life in some bizarre attempt to “save” him from a mysterious shadowy trial is surely worse than having to fight the battle behind closed doors, even if it was a plot.

  92. GamestarP: “…in a society open to free living, loving, and thinking, such as we are blessed with here in CT, USA…”

    That’s just too funny.
    You mean, “free” like in USA, where rich corporations control the people, and tell them what, how, and when to consume? You mean that “free” like in USA where lobbying and buying politicians is common standard?

    No wonder that even poor immigrants from east-europe and asia prefer EU countries to USA nowadays. At least they are treated fairly.

  93. @funnyguy, Ok fair comment but please let’s keep this debate focused on Assange and the allegations!

  94. Well, I certainly read many of the comments (of, say, Celsius, who talks of an “inquisition”) as being more than happy to see the fact that AA is a feminist as a smear in itself. The assumption that a post she made in January (the revenge post) has something to do with her actions in this case is highly questionable. People often post things they find interesting, not necessarily because they condone or approve of them. To assume that those bullet points lay out her personal philosophy to life, when the text surrounding them does not state that, is a jump in logic. And yet the current case supported by admin seems to be that this action was taken in revenge, and that the January post is some sort of evidence for that. I would submit you have nothing but very circumstantial evidence.

    My larger point is that we, as observers, should aim to be neutral to the parties unless there is clear evidence of malice. I don’t see evidence of malice here. Trying to understand more about each party is, to the extent the information is public, understandable. But smearing AA does not make up for the smearing of Assange. And let me be clear: Assange /has/ been smeared here. It’s just an open question as to who has done that smearing. I would suggest the most likely target is Expressen, trying to get a cheap headline to sell papers.

  95. @Pugget, I completely agree that just because she writes a blog post entitled “7 steps to legal revenge” about how to get revenge on a lover does not mean that’s what she’s done here. It’s up for other people reading this to decide whether they think it, plus other evidence presented, would have any bearing on her real life actions.

    And I also completely agree that this should be about trying to be neutral observers in a relatively rational and open debate making their own minds-up about what’s happened. I have also tried to warn people about not jumping on the “feminist bashing bandwagon” as that’s not helping anyone either.

  96. a) I’m tired of “Julian Assange” the celebrity, the “face” of Wikileaks. I know he didn’t ask for celebrity status, but I don’t think he’s doing enough to shift the focus onto wikileaks and/or the documents in question during interviews etc..

    So you’ve got a celebrity face of wikileaks and surprise surprise, he’s attacked because he’s much easier target than the organization as a whole, and now the discussion is all about Julian Assange. And like it or not, this means many peoples’ perception/opinion of Wikileaks the organization is based solely on Assange and his public image, which can be quite fragile.

    b) I’m disappointed to see the instant jump to typical misogynistic attacks on the women involved. I have no idea what the truth of the case is, but people quickly accusing the women of being “mentally unstable” and ‘just jealous’ (read: “too emotional”) — both typical attacks on women who stand up for themselves — is really sickening. Because **YOU don’t know this woman either, nor do you know the truth of the case.**

    Is it /inconceivable/ that Assange engaged in some sexual impropriety? Honestly, many of you act as tho Assange descended from heaven earlier this year. He is a person, a man, and he didn’t grow up in a “patriarchy-free” bubble.

    I support wikileaks, and I think the timing of the rape allegations seems a little too convenient, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to immediately attack the women involved and accuse them of “typical female hysterics.”

    UPDATE: I just read the comments about the “7 steps to revenge”… perhaps there is some basis to the above commenters’ accusations against this woman… oh well, maybe I’m wrong about point (b)! (Tho I still maintain that Assange is a great person but NOT a saint!)

  97. @Nicholas Indeed, great blogging and moderating. This space is becoming my turn-to source for intelligent discussion.

    @Pugget Thanks for your even-handed comments. As a woman and a feminist, I was starting to feel decidedly alienated by the shrill and aggressive tone of the commentary that came before…

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  99. this is cointelpro 2010 / its been done against activists and whistleblowers minority groups since the 20s

  100. @mik I don’t think there is evidence of this (yet?). A glance at the above posts seems to point to it being an embittered attempt to hurt Assange personally.

  101. @ exile

    Well of course that’s what it points to. One of the goals of an intelligence organization would be to make the “evidence” point to anyone but them. In the U.S. there is never evidence even when there is and the truth only comes out, if it ever does, decades after the fact.

    What I find disturbing is the willingness to dismiss something as “conspiracy theory” simply because it’s too big or “out there” for people to process or they are afraid to “go there.” The United States has a long and completely sordid history with this type of thing.

    It may well indeed not have anything to do with U.S. intelligence opperations but, at this point, given history, IMO we should be working from the assumption that it probably does rather than the opposite.

  102. For those busy bashing, lambasting and blaming people & groups like the two women, feminists, USA, CIA, Corporate Powers etc. for this, I just want to remind all of you that right now we still don’t know shit.

    We have a few more facts, a LOT of hypothesis of what happened, but most of what we are going on is speculation. Just like we shouldn’t automatically assume Julian Assange is guilty, neither should we automatically assume that either of these two women, or feminism as a whole is guilty of what has occurred.

    Make sure you understand the difference between, speculating on what happened, asking questions related to those speculations & seeing what facts come up vs. flat out assuming that someone is a “liar,” “slut,” “whore,” “man-hater.”

    Trust me, I know the way feminism has turned out in today’s world is easy lambaste, and may well deserve some just vilification. Let’s just make sure the people/entities involved actually do deserve it in this situation first.

  103. Does any one have a good easy to use Swedish => English web translator? Google & Bing’s translators will not work on https webpages.

  104. “For those busy bashing, lambasting and blaming people & groups like the two women, feminists, USA, CIA, Corporate Powers etc. for this, I just want to remind all of you that right now we still don’t know shit.”

    That’s quite a group you have assembled. They are all equal in your eyes? Two individual women, corporations, the CIA and the United States Government are all deserving of the same amount of fairness with regard to “innocent until proven guilty?”

    You are joking correct?

  105. Rape is a very serious allegation and not easy to prove in a Court of Law once the evidence has been washed away.

    Unless of course they have done a Monica Lewinsky and kept their evidence in the freezer along with their frozen vegetables, this story never had legs. (No pun intended)

    Assange ,while in Sweden decides to rape not one but two women, only later do the women decide they have been molested or raped. Sounds a bit like the prostitute who cried rape a week later …..after her punters cheque had bounced.

    Journalism no longer exists, reporters sell their soul to the highest bidder . We need people like Wikileaks to whistleblow on what is happening to our world and the deceit that goes on with those who are in power.

    I support anyone who wishes the truth to be known even if it means bringing a Goverment to its knees. The bullshit has to stop and those in power have to realise we are not all sheep. People are beginning to fight back..Twitter has teeth and the story died within hours because no one believed it and hard questions were being asked…the newspaper in question buckled…a retraction swiftly followed. Thats one step up for the little people and shows once more there is nothing like a woman scorned.

    HLARIOUS if in the end ASSANGE turns round and tells us all he is gay.

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  107. A drop from a foreigner in the flashback thread pointed out that Anna Ardin has a cousin Mattias Ardin, Överstelöjtnant (google trans. Lieutenant Colonel) and former chief for the swedish contingency in Afghanistan. Anna and Mattias wife Petra are friends on facebook.

    The same nick also drawed our attention to the recent visit of US chief of naval operations admiral Gary J Roughead at the Swedish marine base in Karlskrona.

    http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=3629&artikel=3934678

    What he is doing there is anyones guess but coincides of course with the recent drumbeating about an attack on wikileaks.

    http://spectator.org/archives/2010/08/23/lets-have-a-wikileaks-fire-sal

  108. powerstep: your hilarious joke is no joke. Julian has a perfect defense for heterosexual assault. The ladies were simply disappointed to be misled about hacker culture.

  109. @blink – No they are not all equal. But I think it is important to have a healthy amount of skepticism about any unproven speculation.

    Right now the news media is picking up and running with the story that wikileaks supporters are claiming this is a CIA conspiracy. But if it doesn’t turn out that way, they will look like fools and will be easily dismissed the next time serious allegations come forward.

    It’s best not to let yourself look like a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist. And even more important not to actually turn into one.

  110. Anna Ardin have worked as an intern at the Swedish Ambasy in Buenos Aires. So its not out of the question that she has been recruited earlier in her carier (reports from her internship can be obtained from Uppsala Universitet, The Universety of Uppsala in Sweden. This report, written by Anna, also contains details of a somewhat weird sexul abuse she claimed to be the victim of at the ambasy).

  111. I was wondering why everyone was referring to a Mats Gellin.

    It turns out that Anna Ardin has another open investigation with the police on him.

    https://www.flashback.org/sp25026857

    > Police report has reference number 0201-k246336-10 assault
    > Police are investigating Mats Gellin investigative division ku / f Tel 4010838
    > Plaintiff is Anna Bernardin

    > Anna Bernardin notification is active and she is a notifier.

  112. @Anonymous – I saw that too. Everything I have read says that she is not married and without children. Someone suggested it’s a “Jesus Ring.”

    But given her extensive history with gay culture, I would speculate that it may have been a partner ring for whomever she was with at the time.

  113. Has anyone picked up on this quote from “The Australian?”

    “…Swedish authorities are thought to have become suspicious on Saturday morning when it became clear that the anonymous allegations had been made first to tabloid newspapers and only later to police.”

    This is the first time I have heard this tid bit of info.

    Lends credence to the C.I.A./ Pentagon angle no?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/false-rape-claim-against-assange-us-dirty-tricks/story-e6frg6nf-1225909113236

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  115. @exile The wording is certainly poor. Perhaps I should have said in response: “If true, it could lend credence to the C.I.A/ Pentagon smear angle.” (how’s that for waffling?)

    Thanks for pointing out that it came from the Times. I missed that.

  116. @ec and bon_fim, thanks for the nice comments :)

    @mik, blink, exile, If we are to believe this is a top level CIA plot, we have to believe that they somehow made her or paid her to write some of the blog posts covered in these comments such as the “7 steps to legal revenge” which she wrote back in January. Alternatively, we have to believe that the intelligence agencies somehow knew Assange’s spontaneous trip to Sweden was going to happen several months in advance (impossible as I don’t think even he knew he was going to have to go there to try and secure servers for WikiLeaks), trawled the net looking for someone like her and then convinced her to take part in a plot. Either way, they had to be sure he would jump in bed with her and there was no guarantee of that. I find it very hard to believe either scenario could have happened.

    Blink, you say “IMO we should be working from the assumption that it probably does rather than the opposite” but I don’t agree. We should take a cold rational look at the evidence and make logical conclusions without prejudice it with pre-conceived ideas of what happened. As Popcorn says, it’s all pure speculation as we have very little to go on other than circumstantial evidence so must be very careful of getting too carried away!

    @Abel, Interesting information but just because an American Colonel comes to Sweden to visit an army base doesn’t mean much. If the Americans needed to fill Stockholm with service agents, I’m sure their enormous wire fenced Embassy has room for plenty of them. Not sure we can read much into the fact that she was friends with the wife of a former Swedish army chief in Afghanistan either although it will certainly add fuel to the conspiracy theories.

    @Xepelin, Thanks although we’re already aware of the report she wrote while on an internship in Buenos Aires where she claims a man made inappropriate sexual comments towards her.

    @Anonymous, I think girl’s do wear rings other than wedding or engagement rings so I don’t think that proves much but thanks for the picture!

    @Popcorn, I thought that police report was the formal report she made on the incident with Assange not a new one. Pistol reported it earlier here to confirm it was AA:

    http://nicholasmead.com/2010/08/21/how-to-smear-a-hero/#comment-1627

    @Vincible1 and exile, That’s the first I’ve read it reported that way too. This is still a big mystery that isn’t quite clear – was Expressen newspaper informed before the police? I asked them directly via Twitter about this issue and they replied that said:

    Expressen newspaper via Twitter: “Don’t want to defend the police, but we tried to speak directly to Assange for days. It’s not easy.”

    I asked them if they meant days before or after the arrest warrant was issued but got no further response.

    Not sure if it “Lends credence to the C.I.A./ Pentagon angle no?”. It just means that if true, someone tipped-off the newspaper before the police suggesting it was a stitch-up on Assange. The question then remains was it just a jilted-lover trying to get revenge or something darker?

    @Pugget, Thanks for The Guardian link (they were very late picking this story up by the way – it must have taken them almost an hour after the story broke to get it online although it was a weekend and suspect they are short staffed then).

    However, their latest reports is one of the clearest and most revealing yet that I’ve read.

    Without wanting to speculate too much on Assange’s bedroom activities, one increasingly strong possibility is that the allegations have been made because he refused to wear a condom. Both incidences seem to have started consensually but then gone bad later. Both incidences took place in the morning suggesting that he slept with both of them in the evening using a condom but then in morning when they woke up, fancied some more but didn’t have a condom which is when the problems started hence the women’s desire that he take a “health check” and has a problem with taking “no” for an answer.

    Some interesting quotes from the The Guardian article:

    Both women reported that they had been involved in consensual sexual relationships with Assange, but each reported a separate non-consensual incident of a similar character in which Assange allegedly had sex with them without using a condom.

    It is understood that before going to the police, both women asked Assange to have a health check to reassure them, and that Assange declined to do so. Ms W is said to have visited a hospital on Thursday before going to the police.

    One source who is closely involved said neither of them had originally wanted the case prosecuted; that Ms W had wanted to report the alleged rape to police without their pursuing it, and that Ms A had gone with her to give her moral support and then become embroiled with the police, who had insisted on passing a report to prosecutors.

    In her interview with Aftonbladet, Ms A said: “The charges against Assange are, of course, not orchestrated by the Pentagon. The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl lies with a man who has a twisted attitude to women and a problem with taking ‘no’ for an answer.”

    Finally, note that The Guardian report the arrest warrant leak took place after it was issued, not before as the The Times did as pointed out by Vincible1 and exile.

    Without wanting to speculate too much about Assange’s bedroom antics, since both women are making accusations about an act that happened in the morning, it’s possible the “condom” allegations are because they had sex in the evening and everything was fine but then in the morning he still fancied some more but there were no condoms left. It’s not clear if this is what one of the women regards as a “twisted” view of women or if that refers to something else that happened.

    The rather garbled story of how they reported it to the police “but didn’t want to report it or take it further” is still very strange too. If they didn’t want to report it, why did they go into the police station in the first place?

    In addition, while the details of the molestation claims become a little bit clearer, what remains a complete mystery is why the public prosecutor issued Assange’s name before they’d even contacted him which is against their policy as it can compromise their own investigation as it gives those issued with an arrest warrant a chance to escape or pervert the investigation before they’ve been arrested! It’s still not clear what “new” evidence emerged in the few hours between issuing and revoking the arrest warrant.

    There are still a lot of question marks hanging over that as the public prosecutors bizarre actions have defamed Assange for the rest of his life.

  117. Indeed, the the idea that one can go to the police and report a rape, and then request them not to prosecute seems laughable. I can’t quite bring myself to believe that either woman had such a cavalier attitude. There may be some regret over how the whole incident has worked out in those comments.

    The quote about having a problem taking no as an answer also does not match up with only pursuing a molestation (harassment charge). Clearly, if either woman had said no, and then Assange forced himself upon them, that would be the definition of rape. Yet the prosecutors dropped that charge, saying there was no basis for such a claim. Then what was it? Reluctant sex?

    No doubt, feeling like someone has pressured you into consenting to initially undesired advances could feel like harassment. But this whole case continues to lack a cogent storyline.

    As you say, the main issue that really needs public pressure is why the prosecutors acted in the way they did, and who leaked the information to Expressen.

  118. AA has claimed in an interview with Aftonbladet that JA wasn’t violent, which means that he hasn’t forced himself onto her. Which means that if AA wanted him to use a condom and he refused, she must have agreed at some stage to have sex with him anyway. That is neither rape or molestation. It’s just a girl who is so eager to have sex with a celeb/hero that she allows him to talk her into having sex without condom and afterwards when she realizes that he slept with someone else, maybe feels a little bit used and maybe a little bit jealous.
    So, if that is what happened, I wouldn’t call JA a rapist, just disrespectful.
    He sounds like any bachelor/player to me ;)

    (Since the other girl hasn’t really spoken out in the media I can’t say to much about what I think happened there)

  119. Pingback: Anna Ardin, Ms W, Julian Assange och Åklagarmyndigheten « Aktivarum

  120. Evidently Swedish sex laws are not based on consent like the US & UK laws many of us are used to. Swedish sex law prosecutions are based on criminal intent.

    Here is a hypothetical scenario that Anna Ardin put up on her blog in 2006 about how the law would treat a women if she withdrew consent in the middle of a sex act, but did not necessarily opt to express herself clearly.

    But what is REALLY of interest is the IM conversation between Alexandria & Sarah in the Comment Section going into detail on how those Swedish laws play out.

    Google English Translation:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search%3Fsourceid%3Dchrome%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dcache:http://annaardin.blogspot.com/2006/06/vldtkt_01.html&sl=sv&tl=en

    Google Cache version in Swedish:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cache:http://annaardin.blogspot.com/2006/06/vldtkt_01.html

  121. Thanks Ergo. Looks like it’s unlikely the charges will be dropped either as the two women now have a lawyer (Claes Borgstrom) who says he definitely think Assange should be tried for molestation:

    http://tinyurl.com/395ndkt

    Although of course, a prosecution lawyer is always going to say that. The lawyer says:

    “I think they have suffered sexual molestation, and possibly more serious sexual offenses. That Assange could be a victim of a smear campaign from the Pentagon has absolutely zero substance after hearing the women’s stories and also reading the police reports.”

    He adds:

    “I do not think it is the least strange to call the prosecutor issued the arrest warrant in his absence.”

    What he doesn’t comment on is why was Assange’s name published instantly by the public prosecutors?

  122. Oh, Silbersky and Borgström. Hah.

    Borgström is a former minister of equality, if I remember correctly. He also defended Thomas Quick, formerly known as the biggest serial killer in swedish history but whos case is now under review.

    Regarding the prosecutors publishing Assanges name. They didn’t. They confirmed it, but that isn’t really the same as a press release. Still not good tho.

  123. @Popcorn, Thanks for the highlighting that blog post. Like her “7 steps to legal revenge” post, it is very circumstantial evidence but illuminating all the same. Here is a poorly translated version for those that can’t read it online:

    Thursday, June 1, 2006
    Rape?
    The following story is set in a counterfactual, but not very unreasonable, a scenario that we discussed today, but did not reach an answer to:

    Woman: You want to come home
    Man, why not

    … [Drinking tea]

    Female: came over to this page

    [Sexual act begins]

    It is alternately the woman’s arms, trying to force down the woman’s head against his penis, penetrating the hard, like taking the woman to stop when she is no longer interested to continue. She stops to respond and eventually try to push him away from the body, but says nothing, or perhaps partly out of fear that make the man who already displays a more aggressive behavior than angry.

    It is quite obvious that something is wrong, at some sort of equal six, or at least with some kind of communication is established between the two parties to recognize a man in that position that he should continue, but he goes because he has the power to do so, or because he has a kvinnosyn who tells him that it is ok she was on it at the time, he listened to her, or because he reads the law and know that he never in hell will be able to be tried.

    Can someone tell me how this case is classified?
    Had he been able to be tried if he recognized the above?
    Is there anything at all, when a man convicted of rape despite the fact that the woman started to have sex voluntarily?
    Labels: Feminism
    posted by Anna @ 23:21 Bernardin  
    2 Comments:
    At June 6, 2006 22:55, Alexander  Sofroniou said. ..
    I am not a lawyer so unfortunately I can not answer the questions but I hope that the answer to all questions is “yes”. However, I have an opinion, it is clear that your counterfactual, such as a rape.
    At July 27, 2006 12:22, Sara and Alexandra  said. ..
    [00:41] Alexandra: But it is quite interesting that about the rape – would you talk a little about the +
    [00:41] Sarah: happy
    [00:41] Alexandra: the counterfactual:)
    [00:42] Sara: yes, now I understand what she mean (and you explain) the word. that in how she says that it is a rape, she disproves that it is interpreted as rape.
    [00:43] Alexandra: yes! But it was a bit tricky … do you know her?
    [00:43] Alexandra: Whoever by abuse or otherwise by force or by threat of criminal offense, forcing a person to sexual intercourse – he was wearing the force to carry out intercourse, so the penalty provision is of course into his conduct
    [00:44] Sara: yes, she is a good friend.
    [00:45] Alexandra: But first, we have the majority of crimes in which the concept of a “consent” may be an act is not unlawful
    [00:45] Sara: so if he could see the event as it is written, and tell it he would be convicted?
    [00:46] Alexandra: you think he would say that she clearly showed she did not want to continue but he did it anyway?
    [00:47] Sarah: no, he would say specifically what she did, without examining the documents, for example, “pushed his body away from her”
    [00:47] Sarah:?
    [00:47] Alexandra: I example asks you if I can give you a slap in the face and you say it is ok – then I can not be convicted of assault (if you can prove you gave your consent)
    [00:48] Alexandra: it is a bit tricky at first she wanted – the question then becomes what she is deemed to have agreed to – hopefully just a little foreplay / snogging
    [00:48] Sara: If I only give my consent, and then when I take back, so you refuse to understand, it is possible to judge that? – Well the issue here?
    [00:49] Alexandra: the time of the assessment of consent and what does one evt consent is central
    [00:50] Alexandra: So – if you say yes to a slap in the face so you have not said yes to becoming knelt
    [00:51] Alexandra: I hope and I would also think the judges do not both foreplay and sexual intercourse without consent of her break up their
    [00:51] Sara: If I said yes to fuck, when I have to take back later, because it will “proceed” under the law?
    [00:53] Alexandra: Um … that’s also tricky – one has to modify a consent – with the box on the ear, it might be too late if you change your mind while my hand close to your cheek – but “fuck” end course over a longer period and therefore you can probably change their minds during foreplay
    [00:53] Alexandra: it must be possible – an agreement is of course not the same as signing a contract:)
    [00:54] Sara: so amazingly beautiful it is piled with legal terms. me likes
    [00:54] Alexandra: tsss … but it’s probably just the way that justice can be distorted …
    [00:55] Alexandra: If we now say that she had not consented, and we therefore still have to do with an “unlawful act” as we continue to the subjective side of the law the concept of the “intent
    [00:56] Sarah: I did not understand
    [00:56] Alexandra: No, it is not easy – of course we spent all spring about it:)
    [00:57] Sarah: You mean that she said yes to the foreplay, but no more. when we check on what his intentions right?
    [00:57] Alexandra: Like
    [00:59] Alexandra: For someone to be guilty of a crime, then requires that the person had the intent to commit the offense, with certain crimes as negligence is sufficient. If I eg To kill someone, can I make myself guilty of murder. If I forget instead of gas stove and thus poison my husband so that he dies – I can be sentenced for the crime of “manslaughter” – I did not want to kill him
    [00:59] Alexandra: but I was so careless that I still carry some guilt that I should be condemned for
    [00:59] Alexandra: must go to the bathroom …
    [00:59] Sarah: seen :-)
    [01:01] Alexandra: i am back …
    [01:01] Sarah: same with rape – sexual assault, or?
    [01:02] Alexandra: Rape is a criminal intent – the intent required
    [01:02] Sarah: no, sexual abuse, I mean
    [01:02] Sarah: intent: rape – negligence: sexual exploitation
    [01:02] Sarah:?
    [01:03] Alexandra: No – it is not necessarily the case that all law has a “criminal negligence”
    [01:06] Alexandra: I do not think there is any sex-related criminal negligence – I just wanted the stuff you would understand the intent – it is as a scale in which the intent is top and so we have negligently lower on the scale and debt than you can is, the stronger the intention is
    [01:06] Sarah: ok
    [01:07] Alexandra: You can see the sanctions: murder (intentional required) can provide 10 years’ jail eeller life while involuntary manslaughter (negligent) can be fined – 2 years imprisonment
    [01:07] Sarah: if the guy in the situation and recognize all say he did not understand that she wanted, that he thought it was a sex games or the girls are always so, so he is not convicted?
    [01:08] Alexandra: It is where culture and judges and lay judges image of six plays into the assessment
    [01:09] Sara: there is no criminal negligence by sexual abuse?
    [01:09] Sarah: it may be negligent assault?
    [01:09] Alexandra: In practice, the entire course is mainly about evidence but if we say that someone filmed them and that you can clearly see that she tries to push him away from the body – then he should not get away with him ” did not understand ”
    [01:09] Sara: (this of course we talked about, but I do not remember. Sorry)
    [01:10] Alexandra: it may be causing injury
    [01:11] Alexandra: I can not see any sexual abuse that could be committed by negligence
    [01:12] Sarah: that is the one having sex with the other but to check that the other does not want. the second press away the perpetrator, but the offender does not listen / feel for not / are too antisocial for understanding.
    [01:12] Alexandra: When he realized that she resisted and he was forced by violence to force her into sexual intercourse – he must have had knowledge of what he did – probably intentionally so-called insight
    [01:12] Sarah:?
    [01:13] Alexandra:? to your last question?
    [01:13] Sarah: yes
    [01:13] Sarah: I? If you know it has been reasoned that in cases
    [01:13] Alexandra: and the offender has been acquitted?
    [01:14] Sarah: with: it can not be regarded as beyond all doubt that the accused had understood that the victim did not want
    [01:14] Sarah: and so on. and freed
    [01:14] Alexandra: I do not think there is criminal negligence – it would surely be the same as introducing a requirement for consent and we have not in Sweden (but in England)
    [01:15] Sarah: that is why feminists have pushed consent laws
    [01:15] Sara: but I thought there was a mild intentional crimes. had not taken that there was anything at all
    [01:15] Alexandra: Mmm … but it’s also many who are against it because it would have to draw even more focus on how the victim has behaved – and even want to get away from
    [01:16] Sarah: I read in the convicted defendant at some point. cleared of rape. not cleared completely.
    [01:16] Alexandra: Maybe sexual coercion?
    [01:17] Alexandra: A person who, otherwise than as provided in § 1, first paragraph (rape), by unlawful coercion of a person unable to make or resist a sexual act, convicted of sexual assault to imprisonment for up to two years.
    [01:17] Alexandra: this is sufficient, therefore, by force – it requires no violence or maltreatment
    [01:18] Sara: Yes, it sure would be reasonable, as you said earlier, to lay judges and judges’ view of sex and gender were reviewed.
    [01:18] Alexandra: Mmm … we discussed it at our workshop rape but t is too complicated
    [01:19] Sara th sexual assault, criminal intent?
    [01:19] Alexandra: yes
    [01:20] Alexandra: all law is the principle of intention – then there are some that have a “negligence variant”
    [01:21] Alexandra: To force people to observe a certain degree of diligence – you shall not escape at all times just to be negligent
    [01:24] Alexandra: The tricky with rape crimes, the offender was always the intent to carry out a sexual intercourse – but the intent must also cover violence / coercion / abuse and this is where it becomes difficult to assess the situation – partly because it often has bad evidence and partly because people can have sex in as many different ways and the state can not go in and say so here and this is how we should not have sex …
    [01:26] Alexandra: … while it seems crazy to like sex as they had in the “Tumba case (one woman and seven men, of whom approximately half unknown to her) is not automatically deemed rape
    [01:27] Sara: but we read in the scenario, the perpetrator would be able to recognize everything, but at the same time say that he did not understand that she did not want, and then there would not be condemned?
    [01:29] Alexandra: the judges and lay judges not think that her “no” is so convincing, I guess it would be so …
    [01:29] Alexandra: but it’s all said that if evidence is often word against word
    [01:30] Alexandra: Imagine instead that she actually wanted to have sex and did not make any resistance
    [01:32] Alexandra: but next day when she wakes up she repents and prosecute him for rape and says she pushed away his body, although she did not. If the evidence is just as bad as the situation where she actually came off his body so it might be easier to see why he evt freed – in both situations – we do have the basic principle “nor fia the doubt”
    [01:32] Alexandra: the benefit of doubt
    [01:32] Sarah: absolutely. but it is provided that he denies
    [01:33] Sarah: if he refuses, he can never be judged in this kind of word-for-word and “normal” sex (abuse) the situation
    [01:33] Alexandra: yes – you mean that the point is that he, although he admits that she resisted, can get away by saying that he did not understand that she meant “no”?
    [01:33] Alexandra: No, not if there is no evidence
    [01:35] Sarah: right. so the points are situations where it is clear that she has “resistance” but he claims he did not understand it as such. And they do this even here they gang rape situations
    [01:35] Alexandra: It’ll isådanafall a matter of what fits the requirement “duress” (for the crime of sexual assault) and of course the judges / society’s image of six
    [01:37] Sarah: and the judges / society’s image of male sexuality, right? if they see men as “just hype” or as individuals capable of making, etc.. or?
    [01:38] Alexandra: yes
    [01:38] Alexandra: or how do you mean that the image of women as individuals with the capacity for decision-making would change the situation?
    [01:40] Alexandra: Another thing is that the rapist does not meet the constituent elements of violence / coercion / assault / threat so he can still be convicted if the victim was in a “helpless”
    [01:42] Alexandra: Tumba The case centered on whether the victim had been in a helpless state and HD found that she had not been in such a condition: “Although the situation as such, generally appear to be remarkable and bears traces of recklessness can not in itself lead to the conclusion that VG was helpless in the sense straffbestämmelsens ”
    [01:42] Alexandra: It is required in other words, quite a lot in order to be deemed to be in a helpless state
    [01:44] Alexandra: If you want to read the legal text and good comments on the clauses and legal cases related to the sections you can, if you log in using UpUnet visit the Law Library website: http://www.ub.uu. com / sam / LL /
    [01:44] Alexandra: and in the “Quick Links” choose Norstedts lagkommentarer – they are great once you have learned to navigate around on their side
    [01:45] Alexandra: Now I am getting really tired … what are you writing?
    [01:46] Sarah: ASSA in this case I mentioned before, said the accused to victim type va a whore who wanted to fuck and that there really was so. huh she still really horny. she really wanted. she moaned and thing, which makes whores. and concluded that the defendant did not understand that the plaintiff did not want. So I imagine that a different view of the predominantly male sexuality and a perception of women as individuals (not settled in their impulses) and with the ability to make decisions, draw conclusions, adding one and one and so on. could play a large part in the decision. Thus, criticisms of the courts in rape cases is, of course if mkt kvinnosyn, but the course also manssyn.
    [01:47] Sara: thanks. check out now laggrejset
    [01:48] Alexandra: yes, maybe not just criticism of the courts but in society’s view of sex in general
    [01:48] Sarah: true
    [01:50] Sarah: where are these women then?
    [01:51] Alexandra: Go into the penal code in folders on the left
    [01:51] Sara: ah, found
    [01:51] Alexandra: second section, Chapter 6
    [01:52] Sarah: with examples and stuff. cool!
    [01:52] Alexandra: Then when you click on the section that you want, then the top right and just below it, you can click on the legislative history and case law, etc. – yes it is cool!
    [01:53] Alexandra: But now I must sleep – Natti Natti!
    [01:53] Sarah: sleep well!
    [01:53] Sara: we are heard!
    [01:54] Alexandra: That is right just to get access like that – it does not cost much to subscribe – good luck with the translation!
    [01:54] Alexandra: pussss
    [01:54] Sara: thanks!
    [01:54] Sarah: hug :-)
    [01:54] *** “Alexandra” Signed off at Fri Jul 21 01:54:40 2006th

    @Ergo, Isn’t “confirming” his name the same as “publishing” it. The effect is the same anyway. It’s against their policy to confirm names instantly anyway because it can jeopardize their own investigation if a wanted criminal finds out through the grapevine that they’re after him/her. They could have replied “No comment.” when asked by Expressen. They certainly have no problem replying “No comment” now on why they confirmed his name to a major newspaper so I don’t see why they had a problem with it then.

  124. admin: I still think there is a big difference between sending out a press release to the world and confirming something that will most likely be in the news in the morning anyway.

    I’m not saying it was right, I’m saying there is a difference. It wasn’t they who released Assanges name to begin with.

    About Silbersky, I wrote that one wrong. He isn’t famous for defending celebrities as in movie stars. He is in the press a lot cause he defend high profile criminals. In that aspect, Assange made an error in chosing him. If we go on appearances.

  125. Now that this whole no-condom with bunches of women stuff has come out, I think we can all finally be sure what Julian Assange’s long term master plan is.

  126. Ok, it looks like this is going to a trial, not be dropped. Silbersky is a celebrity lawyer, that is true. I might fill in about Borgstrom. He is a kind of celebrity too – in the feminazi camp!

    It will be a battle of Titans, that trial, believe me!

    His partner in the law firm is the former, and possibly future, minister of justice, Thomas Bodstrom. He is also a frontal figure in everything that is anti- sex, anti- freedom and the chairman (?or similar?) of Ecpat in Sweden. Ecpat are rabid anti childporn/prostitution activists, fighting a noble cause, but using very abusive methods, distorting fact, lying and cheating, creating tyranny in small steps at a time. They see child abusive porn where there is none, like japanese cartoons, yes cartoons!!! A man was recently sentenced for having that kind of stuff on his computer, during a custody fight with his ex wife, who falsely claimed he molested their daughter. See the pattern?

    These people are the most dangerous risks for future democracy in Sweden. They want to create a society in Sweden that Mielke, the former STASI chief in East Germany would envy. (Mielke: “Um sicher zu sein muss man alles wissen” = To be safe, you must know everything.) They are succeeding, unfortunately, because among other integrity abusive laws, a law (FRA) that was suggested by Bodstrom, has been passed by he present government, although worse. The law gives a government entity, FRA, the right to sift through ALL e-mail that passes the Swedish border! It is a law that has been passed as a “presnt” to the US. Among other reasons, Sweden has a huge amount of refugees from Iraq that the US wants to spy on. Once it is in place, you can bet that there will be a sliding of the purpose, and, because the technolgy exists, it can be used to filter for a whole bunch of things, like politics.

    There is a twist to this; the FRA law was opposed only by one party, the tiny Piratpartiet. Yep, the same party that is now hosting WikiLeaks!!!

    Gues who gets my vote later this year, when Sweden goes to the polls…

    For those of you who don’t know Sweden so well, if you ever go there, take care and learn! You have no idea how sick the Swedish society is becoming. The kiddyporn and sex stuff is just an excuse to dismount the few checks and balances that exists, and introduce an endemic control society, going way past Orwells’ 1984. The US and UK can use terrorism as an excuse for the same, but as there is a conspicuous lack of terorism in Sweden, the peddo card has to be played instead. Because who can speak against? If you do, you must first explain, in vain probably, that you are really not a child molester, just want to remain free in a democratic society. Tough shit, you’ll lose!

    I hope the feminazis have stung the wrong rabbit this time and he turns out to be a lion instead, so that perhaps the trend may start to slowly turn around. How the hell else could I ever move back to my home country?

  127. Celsius, call me as soon as the “Feminazis” blitzkrieg Poland.

    I also hate the type of over top thought crime prosecution that you discuss, but it also has absolutely nothing to do with this case. In that regard, you are all supposition, no substance. Indeed, your whole post is basically a smear by proxy of AA’s lawyer and, by transitivity, AA herself.

  128. As others have said, thanks Nicholas for a great source of information and comment! Anna and her friend have a lawyer now so we can assume that they are serious about continuing with their “case”. If the condom story is “the only thing” the police report is based on, I would say that Julian Assange will not really be defamed for life but rather “only” made a fool of. But I think the Swedish justice system and Anna have also made fools of themselves more than fools of Julian. How can people take them seriously again? By extension, as far as Anna is concerned, Sweden´s reputation as a country for free love and sophistication in sexual relationships has been deeply damaged. In all cases, points have been won for US cultural hegemony, but maybe just as a coincidence?

    I definitely see Assange as a hero and Wikileaks as vital and I do not think I will change my mind. As a woman, ever since I saw Assange on the Amy Goodman Democracy Now Show, I have been worrying about how “he solves the sexual bit” to express it as we do in Sweden. I concluded that he does it through free-love relationships and that makes him extremely vulnerable. This is something that has come into being as a result of the publicity he has received after Wikileaks’ publication of the collateral damage video. Before that he was not in the spotlight so he had more freedom but since then the credibility and the moral reputation of Wikileaks depend on him, so I said to myself, “Get married, Julian, or at least get yourself a steady and visible partner!”

  129. Celsius: There might be problem in Sweden, but its people like you, seeing Orwells ghost everywhere, that makes any kind of intellectual discussion about it impossible. Therefore you are part of the problem.

  130. Pugget, I have seen a ton of the wildest conspiracy theories that the CIA is behind all this. Never believed it.

    But if you cannot see the grand scale of this ongoing dismounting of democracy i Sweden that I am trying to describe, it may be because you have too little insight into the Swedish society at present. I gave you a few of the dots, but you have to connect them yourself. I don’t blame you if you can’t, because there all lots more dots out there, but too many for me to describe. Too lazy for that, sorry.

    I am not sure this is a masterminded thing by someone, I rather think that it is a result of he sum of a bunch of people’s collective personal ambitions for power and fame.

    About the rest of my comment, you are still allowed to have an opinion, if your country allows it. It may be changing in Sweden though. At least there are many opinions considered normal elsewhere that will make you a pariah in Sweden…

  131. Ergo, an American president said something like: “Those who sacrifice freedom for justice deserve neither.”

    If you think we need to see more pieces of the puzzle before we realise that democracy is in peril, that’s up to you. I rather be safe than sorry. Freedom and democracy is not won once and for all, it has to be defended all the time.

  132. Its easy to say that if people don’t see the problem you describe, they have less insight in swedish society than you.

    For the rest of the commentator, Celsius do not represent a majority of swedish people. What he says is a trumped up view that a minority has, which is probably common in most countries, about how society is progressing towards an undesirable end. In Sweden, the “enemies” are mostly described as feminists.

  133. Celsius: I often use that quote myself. But concerning integrity and public access, not the fight for equality.

  134. @Celsius, I take your point about civil liberties being under attack in Sweden but let’s keep the “feminazi” slurs to a minimum please. For all the recent problems Sweden has with civil liberties, it still has some of strongest protections for freedom of speech in the world (which is why afterall Assange was in Sweden) but I acknowledge this case may be used as a Trojan horse to destroy them. If you want my 2 cents, if you are worried about the way power is being abused in Sweden, then I think you’d be better focusing on the corporate takeover of government and mainstream media in rather than a group of feminists or conservative right-wing zealots offended by Manga cartoons. That’s where the source of the problem lies. But as Pugget says, let’s keep this debate focused on the allegations facing Assange and the circumstances surrounding them please!

    @Maisy, Thanks for the comments and I think you’re probably right. Assange is clearly free spirited and doesn’t think there should be any restrictions on freedom of thought or actions. Whether and how this translates into his personal life we don’t know (and is none of our business) but if it is “”free love” then yes, it’s going to make him very vulnerable and pose a problem publicly.

    @Ergo, It not only “wasn’t right” for the public prosecutor to confirm his name but it was shooting themselves in the foot! The latest from Aftonbladet is that even the lawyer defending the women can’t believe they did that because it gives the accused a chance to escape from Sweden so that he or she can avoid the arrest warrant:

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7666480.ab

    Would they really be that incompetent with such a high profile target? I also wonder whether Expressen would have gone ahead with the story without confirmation by the public prosecutor? It would have been a massive gamble for them although I suspect trumping Aftonbladet, which was just about to publish its first exclusive Assange written column for them, would have been too much to resist.

    One clear result of this that we can say without doubt is that Aftonbladet won’t be publishing Assange’s column – at least until after the trial. It shouldn’t stop WikiLeaks publishing on Swedish servers though – the contracts have already been signed with the Pirate Party and besides, Assange is not WikiLeaks.

  135. Get readt for mass removal of Anna Ardin’s writings from google cache & other stored locations. If anyone want’s to save a copy of anything you had better do it today.

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  137. I apologize, as this is very OT, but the original quote Celsius and Ergo are discussing above is from Benjamen Franklin (never a President):

    “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    It’s a great quote, and I couldn’t agree more.

  138. admin: First, that Silbersky takes advantage of the public opinion and questions how the whole thing was handled is no surprise. It just shows that he knows what he’s doing.

    Second, I agree that it was a serious mistake. We have to wait for JO’s investigation for any answers to why – the public prosecutors will most likely not give out any more information then already provided.

    Third, a possible trial will be a total media circus with the two lawyers, Borgström and Silbersky. So hopefully thats something we can at least somewhat follow, if not because of the sensitivity it will be a closed trial. Since the charges are relatively minor it might be scheduled pretty soon.

  139. @Celsius

    “Ergo, an American president said something like: “Those who sacrifice freedom for justice deserve neither.”

    If you think we need to see more pieces of the puzzle before we realise that democracy is in peril, that’s up to you. I rather be safe than sorry. Freedom and democracy is not won once and for all, it has to be defended all the time.”

    It was Benjamin Franklin (though never president, the smartest of all the Founding Fathers) who said: “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    He also said, when asked what type of government the Constitutional Congress had formed, “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

    Thomas Jefferson (attributed): “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”

    You have it correct Celsius. “Democracy” is constantly being eaten away at by right-wing authoritarian forces. Don’t let anyone tell you any different and keep reminding others of this fact. It will not be your fault if they are too dense to see it.

  140. @Ergo
    it’s actually the womens lawyer who is critizising how everything has been handled, that police hasn’t contacted Assange etc.

    Silbersky has only confirmed that he is gonna represent Assange.

  141. It’s not clear to me if Rättssäkerhetsorganisationen has any formal power, but they have apparently issued another statement with a stronger indictment of the initial prosecutor, accusing her of violating the confidentiality of the investigation. To whit:

    “According to the organisation, the prosecutor violated the confidentiality of preliminary investigations by giving the media information about this case, DJ reported.”

    http://www.thelocal.se/28556/20100824/

    Is this actually new, or just repackaged news from earlier in the day?

  142. I don’t know about Swedish laws, but I have the perception that the way the prosecutor(s) behaved has weakened whatever kind of case may have come out of the whole story.

    My point of view isn’t neutral, but the damage done by the publicity will mostly be suffered by the women who reported Assange since the very fast cancellation of the arrest warrant will be noted as a very bad mistake in information handling, despite what the prosecution office says.

    I really don’t know if Assange will be damaged or not, it’s my opinion that this fact could be useful in the future, despite the usual rants of pundits who will go where no man has gone before to prove their points about something (e. g. the unrelated Babbin’s babble on Wikileaks in the American Spectator).

    Let’s wait and see, anyway, I’m not in a hurry to see if I’m wrong or not. Thanks for all the info, Mr Mead, they have been very valuable to me.

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  145. @ admin. I use the term feminazi as a shorter form of “rabid-over-the-top-superradical-feminists-with-a-dangerous-agenda” because I want to make a distinction between them and people who are seriously struggling for equality between sexes. If it offends you I will not use it, but maybe you can suggest a good term that makes the distinction I look for?

    FYI, Sweden does NOT have strong laws for freedom of speech or expression in the extent you seem to think!!! That is exatly the misunderstanding WikiLeaks fell for and why Assange had to go to Sweden to become a bonafide PUBLISHER according to old fashioned definitions. Internet and blogs are not included in any of the protection of the law. You must have a publishers certificate to enjoy any of the protection the “constitution” (not really a constitution because it is too hollow and inconsistent) allows. He thought, just like you, that anyone who publishes something is protected. NOT! You are not allowed to investigate the source of a newspaper (whistleblower or whatever), BUT that does not apply to any media or person that has no publishers certificate. Assange found that out and thought he better get one.

    You also don’t seem to understand the role of the femin****. It is not gender equality that is the goal. It is just apparent struggle for it that is the tool. Draconic laws are passed using pedofiles as an excuse, because of the lack of terroists.

    With a free and uncensored internet, I worry very little about what happens with mainstream media, which is already taken over by corporations. Government is different. That is where the fight is, you are right.

    The way this connects to Assange is that Piratpartiet is allied with him, and WikiLeaks is an important part of the protection against dismounting democracy. Not just in Sweden, clearly. The work WL has done serves to undermine the undemocratic forces in the US that feed off the wars, with money going from taxpayers’ pockets, via the military industry, into the pockets of the rulers, because the own it all. (Cheney, etc.) If you think that is OT, I will not argue any more. It is your blog, you rule.

    @ Pugget, thanks for clarifying that quote!

    @ ergo. I just love this one: “For the rest of the commentator, Celsius do not represent a majority of swedish people.” You are so absolutely right! and that is exactly the problem. If the majority would look up from their facebookpages, soap operas, celebrity scandal stories and all the other BS that is constantly on peoples minds, things would not be so bad. But you know, the only reasons most people will care about this story with Assange is because it is about a celebrity and sex. They will not care much what he is trying to achieve or why.

    And what is to say that because I do not belong to the majority , I must be wrong? You seem to imply that I am some kind of freak or nutcase because I say something different from mainstream?

    The dictatorship of the majority is why homosexuals, muslims, jews, gypsies, and so on, have suffered throughout history.

    @ blink. Thanks! For the encouragement and the other quotes. Although I have nothing to admire in the foreign policy of the United States at present, the US does have the most brilliant constitution in the world. I wish a good deal of it could be applied in Sweden one day.

  146. @ Pugget. Rättssäkerhetsorganisationen is a loose network of people who belive they have been treated unfairly by the judicial system. It is quite remarkable that they manage to make it into the news like this, because it is a pretty insignificant organisation. Certainly without any form of formal power whatsoever.

    It was formed by a former record company owner (or such?) who was sentenced for, I think, nine counts of rape of young starlets who wanted record contracts (oh, the groupie thing, it is an old one) which he denied and still struggles to be vindicated for, although he has already done the prison term. His life destroyed, oh well, it is sweden after all.

    Anna Sjödin is the other founder. She was the chairman of SSU, the social democratic party’s youth organisation and was fired after a brawl in a bar where she was accused of assault of the guards in the door (who in Sweden are licensed and have similar to a policeman’s authority at the site where they work). Her political carreer was destroyed completely after that, of course.

    JO, Justitieombudsmannen, is the official authority to whom you complain if you feel wrongly treated by the judicial system, and it was apparently through JO that RO made their complaint.

  147. @ Alberto G.: Sweden does not have the strong formal protection that the US has, for example. In my opinion at least. The first thing a lawyer checks for in the US is if formalia has been followed. If not, that will be the primary point of attack.

    In this case, they will “interpret” things to their advantage and right now the whole judicial system has suffered a major loss of face. Down to the bone!

    So whether or not they have a strong or even valid case at all against JA, they must follow through with it, to save the very little respect they may still have. They claim that everything is following normal procedures, just the way they always do things and no mistakes at all have been made.

    To make that even somewhat believable, they must charge JA for _something_ at least. If not, they will look mega stupid. Everyone can see how hollow it all is!

    So, sorry for JA, he has become the enemy of the whole judicial system in Sweden now. Both sides, JA by hiring a high profile defender, and especially the prosecutors, are playing up their hand, making it look as solid as they can. The feather is turning into a flippin’ turkey!

    Without the media attention, this would have followed a totally different route. It remains to see who gains from the media hype in the end though…

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  149. It seems like Anna has been thinking of scenarios like this before… The whole story is rather bizarre. (Sorry for Google translation.)

    Anna Ardin blog on blogspot:

    http://annaardin.blogspot.com/2006/06/vldtkt_01.html

    Heading Rape?

    The following story is set in a counterfactual, but not very unreasonable, a scenario that we discussed today, but did not reach an answer to:

    Woman: You want to come home
    Man, why not

    … [Drinking tea]

    Female: come over to this side

    [Sexual act begins]

    The man is alternately holding the woman’s arms, trying to force down the woman’s head against his penis, penetrating too hard, the woman wants to stop when she is no longer interested to continue. She stops to respond and eventually try to push him away from the body, but says nothing, or perhaps partly out of fear that make the man who already displays a more aggressive behavior than angry.

    It is quite obvious that something is wrong, at some sort of equal sex, or at least with some kind of communication is established between the two parties to recognize a man in that position that he should continue, but he goes on because he has the power to do so, or because he has a view on women who tells him that it is ok she was on it at the time, he listened to her, or because he reads the law and know that he never in hell will be able to be judged.

    Can someone tell me how this case is classified?
    Had he been able to be judged if he recognized the above?
    Is there anything at all, when a man convicted of rape despite the fact that the woman started to have sex voluntarily?

    Labels: Feminism

    posted by Anna @ 23:21 Bernardin

  150. Celsius, the fact that Sweden doesn’t have the strong formal protection of the US is completely indifferent to me. I really couldn’t care less.

    My opinion isn’t based on formal facts, but on what lawyers in the judicial systems I know would consider a good starting point for their defense, and the very fast retraction of an arrest warrant is a very good starting point everywhere.

    The lawyers of the women know it very well, that’s why they protested for the handling. They are the ones that will have to go in a tribunal. They know much better than me and you what damages the interests of their customers.

  151. This quote which first appears in the NYT at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/world/europe/24wikileaks.html “What I can say is that I have never, in Sweden or any other country, had sex with someone in a way that did not build on total consent from both sides” seems rather notable in its vagueness.

    Was the Assange interview in Aftonbladet not originally conducted in English? Only a Swedish version has been published, afaik, here: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7654862.ab It quotes him saying “Det jag kan säga är att jag aldrig, vare sig i Sverige eller i något annat land, haft sex med någon på ett sätt som inte byggt på total frivillighet från båda sidor.”

    Google translates that to “What I can say is that I never, either in Sweden or in any other country, had sex with someone in a way that is not built on total voluntary from both sides.”

    The translation here at http://nicholasmead.com/2010/08/21/how-to-smear-a-hero/ sounds significantly less vague: “What I can say is that I have never, either in Sweden or in any other country, had sex with someone that they haven’t consented to” is significantly less vague.

    Can any native Swedish speakers say here which translation is more accurate? And does anyone know if Assange is fluent enough is Swedish that the interview would have been conducted in it?

    It seems to me that it is rather irresponsible of the NYT to publish a translation from Swedish (which itself is possibly a translation from English?) as if it is a direct quote!

  152. @Concerns:

    “Det jag kan säga är att jag aldrig, vare sig i Sverige eller i något annat land, haft sex med någon på ett sätt som inte byggt på total frivillighet från båda sidor.”

    First translation works. “… in Sweden or in any country, have had sex with anyone in a way that wasn’t built on (based on) total voluntary (consent) from both sides”

    The second translation sums it up, I guess. Assange was deliberately vague in the aftonbladet-article, ’cause he didn’t know (or had not confirmed) the identity of his accusors. I don’t think he knows swedish, so its probably translated from english.

  153. Addition: A thought – when Assange is quoted saying “total frivillighet” this is later re-translated as “consent”. The swedish word for “consent” would be “samtycke”.

    “Frivillighet” kinda implies willing participation, not just consent (Consent without willingness might be cause for a charge of molestation, while sex with neither consent or willingness would be rape). So its possible that his original wording was less vague. It is also possible that those who wrote the article translated “consent” into “frivillighet”.

    This is pure conjecture, ofc.

  154. NEWSFLASH: Both women were just offended because JA wanted to check his emails all the time, so they filed those claims.

    /back to hide under my rock.
    //too soon?

  155. It is the “based on” part of that double-translated quote that concerns me, particularly re: Pelle’s quote from AA’s blog above.

  156. Latest news from Flashback in Sweden

    Nr 2 – Ms W – Sofia Wilén

    Now we are waiting for the confirmation or something else.

  157. @Alberto G, You say: “the damage done by the publicity will mostly be suffered by the women who reported Assange”

    The most damage will surely to Assange whatever happens although the Swedish public prosecution system has also suffered from the way it has been handled. It is quite likely that whether this was a plot or has become one, similar accusations may be made against Assange in the future by those that want to discredit him.

    @Celsius, I’m not offended by the word “feminazi” but feminists reading this might be. You have to be careful when using the nazi word because it’s very inflammatory. Perhaps “radical feminists” will suffice? Thanks for clarifying the freedom of speech situation in Sweden – I guess it’s more accurate to say that Sweden has freedom of speech protection laws if you apply for them. I have no problem with you expressing political views relating to Assange and WikiLeaks either by the way – I’m not sure where you got that impression and for the most part I agree with your outlook. As long as the comments relate to Assange, WikiLeaks and don’t contain the word “feminazi” you’re free to write what you like! :) As regards your thoughts on applying the “brilliance” of the American constitution in Sweden, I’m sure blink wishes the powerful would start applying in America first! ;)

    You say: “Rättssäkerhetsorganisationen is a loose network of people who belive they have been treated unfairly by the judicial system. It is quite remarkable that they manage to make it into the news like this, because it is a pretty insignificant organization.”

    Maybe it’s as a rather lame attempt to restore some credibility to the public prosecution system and being used as a fig leaf by media and prosecutors to take the heat off some of the criticism they’ve been getting? Thanks for the detailed insight into the organization by the way.

    @Pelle, thanks but that blog post has already been highlighted here:

    http://nicholasmead.com/2010/08/21/how-to-smear-a-hero/#comment-1701

    @Alberto, the way the women reported Assange is also very odd. They claimed that they didn’t want to file an official rape report but just wanted “advice”. However, as I understand, by law the police have to make a report of rape allegations and thus the wheels started in motion. What it means though I think is that if the charges were dropped, the women couldn’t be charged with wasting police time because they only asked for “advice”.

    @Concerns, I presume the interview Assange did was in English but the paper only published the Swedish version. I don’t really see your confusion though – both the translations you quote mean pretty much the same thing.

  158. kudos for this one, indeed…

    I was majorly annoyed by the fact how hard it was to get any reliable facts on this after initial headlines broke. OK, you don’t have them all either, since apparently they are trickling down to the public rather slow, but hell, what a follow up.

    @ admin, appreciate the way you kept discussion in check without seriously stamping on anything – thankfully this allows for following both facts AND opinions and that’s a good thing imho ;)

  159. Nicholas (I hope you don’t mind if I refer to you informally), similar accusations will be made in the future, and they will be rejected as this one.

    I’m not taking sides, but we’re living in a time that favours much more debate than what was possible in the past. In that respect, I want to be optimistic. I have to. I know I have an idealistic and probably idyllic stance, but so far I have not been delusional. Let’s wait and see.

    The oddity of the circumstances which have led to Assange’s indictment have been noted, and probably will be noted not only by me. That’s why I maintain that a judge who knows what he’s doing would deliberate in a certain way, and not the other way. Anyway, this is – once again – a speculation, based on the assumption that the charges of molestation won’t be dropped, and, at the moment, nobody can be sure about that, not even the prosecutors.

  160. From the rebellabloggen.wordpress.com:

    But the truth can be far much easier than the CIA conspiracies, sexfällor or a feminist conspiracy to destroy all men. **** It can be something as simple as two women who wanted to find out if it was possible to force anyone to test themselves for sexually transmitted diseases.****

    Can someone translate this part more clearly that google translate:

    “Och om poliser som gjorde sitt jobb och såg något brottsligt i kvinnornas berättelse om en sexpartner som struntade i deras överenskommelse om skyddat sex och lät bli att använda kondom utan deras vetskap eller samtycke.”

    Google translate from their blog state:
    “And if police officers did their jobs and saw anything wrong in the women’s story of a sexual partner who ignored their agreement on protected sex and he did not use condoms without their knowledge or consent.”

    So are the girls at the Rebel blog saying that Julian did not use condoms WITHOUT the females knowledge?

    I kind of find that hard to believe that a women would just ignore the part where the guy puts on a condom before they go at it. (Of course there are other rumors that he took it off during sex… are they saying he did this without the woman’s knowledge?, or did he take off the condom & give the girls a money shot in the face?)

  161. Celsius

    “@ blink. Thanks! For the encouragement and the other quotes. Although I have nothing to admire in the foreign policy of the United States at present, the US does have the most brilliant constitution in the world. I wish a good deal of it could be applied in Sweden one day.”

    I confess that I almost broke down and wept at your first post (the first one I noticed anyway – the one with the attempt at quoting Franklin). To see a “foreigner” quoting that made me both proud and particularly sad. Many, if not most, American left-libertarians regard Scandinavia, on the whole, to be models of social-democracy. We know there are flaws obviously but we know that you all are in a damn site better place than we are. You still have the ability to be “ever vigilant” and have it mean something. Our time is passed. The United States is a gutted shell. We have traded everything that was good about us – our core constitutional values and rule-of-law, our courage, our tolerance, etc. for reasons of fear, loathing, American Idol and Wal-Mart. Americans are literally some of the dumbest, most ignorant and fearful people on the planet and we are a danger to ourselves and everyone else as a result.

    If you are truly interested in what the American people have allowed to take root, read and understand the books “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein and “Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism” by Sheldon S. Woldin.

    http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8606.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

    The United States of America is a lost cause. Don’t let the same happen to you.

  162. I just want to point out that speculating about what happened in their private sexual activities is enormously distasteful for all parties involved. From my point of view as someone whose complaints to police went nowhere, this whole episode is very upsettng.

    This forum is public and more people than you realise are following this thread. So I simply request that a little more sensitivity to individual’s boundaries be shown.

  163. @Anonymous – Had it been kept out of the paper no one would know or be talking about it until the police had finished their job.

    Julian has both been accused of having consensual sex with both of the women, AND raping them at the same time.

    Some of the women who Anna knows are insisting she should be believed. Several people are insisting that Julian should be believed.

    As distressing as this may be to you, no one is going to believe anyone until all of the facts come out since the accusations to date don’t make any sense.

    The case is of international interest & it isn’t going to go away one way or another just on one person’s say so. This is what happens when you fuck famous people & it doesn’t turn out well.

  164. From one of the few remaining, well regarded American journalists:

    Scott Horton

    http://harpers.org/archive/2010/08/hbc-90007522

    “As I wrote in “WikiLeaks: The National-Security State Strikes Back,”

    http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/08/hbc-90007466

    a highly classified Army Counterintelligence Center 32-page memorandum noted that to eliminate the threat presented by WikiLeaks, the United States would have to strike not simply servers and databases, but against the individuals who were critical to the operation of WikiLeaks. It repeatedly identifies Assange as a target, describes the leaks as criminal acts and advocates “successful prosecutions” to “destroy the center of gravity” of WikiLeaks. The suspicions raised by Assange are thus hardly unwarranted—they match the Pentagon’s own plan to take WikiLeaks out of action. However, there is as yet no direct evidence for the claim that the accusations leveled at Assange were the work of some intelligence service, and even if there were, Assange has plenty of governments anxious to shut him down aside from the United States. But as this incident makes clear, the war on WikiLeaks will be fought with unconventional tools and those following the story are advised to accept nothing at face value.”

    @admin

    The last line in the block I quoted is what I meant when I said everyone should be working from the assumption that, when it comes to anything negative attributed to Assange and WikiLeaks, the U.S. Government and its intelligence services are involved. They are not “persons” and thus not deserving of “innocent until proven guilty.” Given their history, they are not deserving of the benefit of the doubt at all. If it turns out they are not involved in this particular instance then fine but dismissing them as suspects too early is a decidedly stupid thing to do.

    PS. Does the comments section allow for html code? I am going to test it….

    It would be nice to be able to use such code as bold, italics,

    blockquote

    , quote, etc.

  165. As one of the international lurkers, I wanted to thank admin and everyone here for this most reasonable discussion, and for all the good references.

    I am a supporter of WikiLeaks and I am a feminist. It seems to me very wrong that this story, whatever the truth is, landed in the lap of the law. I am sorry to see people forced into public confessionals that none of them foresaw but that have now apparently just overtaken them all.

    blink, you bring a tear to my eye. I’m writing from Canada, where we used to think that we were still resisting the fear and loathing more easily than you could. That has changed, as you may know. North America is becoming a no-go zone for real believers in democracy, which is sad and frightening sometimes, but it is a real help to me to read Americans who know and are resisting the darkness.

  166. Input the words: “Wikileaks rape” into Google and you get over 13 million hits!

    Yet not one peep about who the second women accuser is.

    Updates anyone??

  167. @Vincible, It seems that Google translates “Ardin” and “Bernadin” for some reason. The article you refer to says that The Christian Brotherhood Movement that AA works for told them that she was “on sick leave”.

    @Pelle, It seems to be a feminist blog associated to the social democrats that AA writes for criticizing those who are defending Assange against the allegations or at least, criticizing those who think Assange is an angel and can do no wrong. Note that the link for AA under “Rebellor” takes you to her blog which seems to be online again…

    @Popcorn, I’m not quite sure what to make of that either. It sounds like they are suggesting that maybe the allegations were just a case of two women trying to see if they could force a man to take an test for sexually transmitted diseases?? And then suggests that women told the police they either didn’t consent to sex without a condom or didn’t know that he wasn’t wearing one. It would require someone Swedish to correctly translate that part. I notice that one of the commenters asks if Anna wrote the post but Sara Gunnerud says it was she that wrote it and no-one else.

    @anonymous, I absolutely agree with you and the speculation on bedroom activities is an unfortunate result of the rather confusing way the women reported the allegations and the subsequent way they have been handled by the prosecutor who I suspect were also confused. Combined with the fact that there is a lot of concern by Assange’s supporters that he has been setup by shady forces, the scrutiny on exactly what actually happened is very intense. You say that your complaints went nowhere and find this very upsetting which is regrettable. Are you referring to a similar case you were involved in because this situation seems to be unprecedented in Sweden?

    @Popcorn again, No one knows if it was the women themselves that tipped-off Expressen so it’s not fair to imply at this stage that they’re being punished for something they brought on themselves or deliberately caused. It could just be a case of a terrible misunderstanding between Assange and the women that’s been inflamed by poor handling by the prosecution service. I understand though that the latest blog post by AA supporters highlighted by Pelle on the “Rebellablogen” makes things sound even more confusing though especially the bits about the allegations may have been some kind of test to see if they could get Assange tested for sexual diseases or that the women simply didn’t know he wasn’t wearing a condom. Hopefully someone can offer a more precise Swedish translation but until then, we should respect anonymous’s wishes that people speculate what it means with a little more consideration although I know it’s hard when it comes to bedroom activities. And if you don’t want to comply with that for the women’s sake, then maybe for Assange’s sake as I can’t imagine it’s much fun for him to have his bedroom antics too crudely speculated on, even if it is done with an aim of trying to ascertain whether he has been setup.

    @blink, Some good book recommendations and appeals to Swede’s not let their country go the way of America but let’s try to keep on topic as much as possible. I’m not suggesting by the way that a CIA plot is ruled out – all I’m suggesting is that people take a rational look at the evidence and sequence of events, put pre-conceived ideas and prejudices aside, and make their own mind-up. PS Yes comments allows for html code ;)

    @skdadl, thanks for the comments.

    @Lionelle there’s no further information on that yet as far as I know.

  168. I’m writing from Canada, where we used to think that we were still resisting the fear and loathing more easily than you could. That has changed, as you may know. North America is becoming a no-go zone for real believers in democracy, which is sad and frightening sometimes, but it is a real help to me to read Americans who know and are resisting the darkness. — skdadl

    It is indeed sad and frightening. As America has descended, those of us on the left have always been able to at least look Northward for sanity. As you say, that sanity appears to be losing ground. Perhaps it is losing ground everywhere. Celsius has pointed out that, even in Sweden, certain forces are forming their attacks on “democracy.”
    ————————-

    For those interested, another American worth taking the time to read regularly:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/08/24/wikileaks/index.html

  169. @Lionelle

    Sofia Wilén looks like a pretty good solid match. She has been referred to as Ms. W in papers much as Ms. A is Anna Ardin.

    The NYTimes stated that she is an artist in her mid 20’s.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/world/europe/24wikileaks.html?_r=1

    That is also a match for Sofia Wilén who is 26 (according to some of the profiles she has set up on the internet). She has also recently taken down her artist website.

    At this point I would be surprised if it was not her.

  170. @Popcorn

    All the took down was the root index page. The rest of the site is still there. And it’s not a lot.

    She might seem a good match but there’s no documented link. None. AA is different as her boss bloopered out the connection to a Swedish news site the other day. Even there a second (or more) reference would be nice.

    I don’t trust any of them until I can see the same type of raw data WL provides.

    Right now there is so much nonsense and BS spreading – mainly by the MSM who have editors horny for hits for the advertisers – that I’d guesstimate about 99% is worthless. Flashback speculate – but they admit it. Both the Guardian and the NYTimes are there at Flashback, with their Google Translate windows, taking stuff away, claiming it as their own, and not going any further.

    I just want to get away. The Mediocre have taken over the world. Two weeks ago we were so proud of our country again. For the first time in a long time. Now we’re disgusted again.

  171. Admin,
    In my case the incident, due to my own actions, came out on the internet. There was much speculation about what happened and if I was making it up for attention. The _more_ details given the _worse_ it got which is the opposite to what happens in a lot of cases of intrigue. Rape is such a touchy subject witih so many people that they have too much invested in believing one side or the other and will fight tooth and nail to be victorious over their enemies irrespective of the damage they do even to their own side.

    It follows this pattern every time. Not only are the boundaries being cross on the part of the women, but on Julian’s as well. You are discussing the most intimate and private activities of three individuals, not powerful corporations or governments. In this case transparency is damaging and this is actually a point that Assange himself has recently argued in his activist career.

    Why not leave what happened behind closed doors as an intimacy black box. Something happened, we don’t know what and we can’t know what. The _court_ has a right to know but we really don’t until it goes to court, if indeed it ever does.

    That being said, I think it is possible to discuss all other circumstances of the case to test the likelihood of corruption or ulterior motives without violating 3 people’s right to privacy in their sexual affairs.

    If it is indeed true that the women were simply making enquiries at the police station and got caught up in an unstoppable legal process then perhaps they unwittingly dropped a scandal into the laps of some anti-Wikileaks cops who got far too excited by the story, called a reporter, and got their favourite junior prosecutor to join in.

    @Popcorn I don’t expect anything to change because of what one anon commenter says but I would certainly hope that it would be considered seriously.

    Another point of similarity is that

  172. @Rick – You are right to have a healthy degree of skepticism about the information coming out. Especially when it comes to possibly mistakingly identifying someone who very well may be uninvolved.

  173. The only place I’ve seen a source for the condom story is Flashback. Even the Guardian claim it’s in the Aftonbladet interview but *it’s not*. People making up stuff like this…

    Another chap and myself caught CNN spamming at Twitter earlier this evening. Nearly 100 people retweeted an incorrectly titled tweet from CNN that actually led to a completely different article. Yet 100 people retweeted – they didn’t even read it.

  174. @Anonymous – It’s sort of off topic, but I suspect that most police departments do not provide women with good advice on how to deal with potential publicity that can come out. As in your instance, you stated that it leaked out from you.

    It’s kind of a difficult subject as victims of assault need to talk to friends and their support network. But once that happens, people just can’t be trusted to keep their mouths shut. Friends tell friends and then it’s all over the place.

    Private women’s support groups would be a good potential network where an assault victim should be able to get support without information leaks.

  175. @Popcorn: we went with the name Anna Ardin yesterday. On one source only. That was borderline. Most of the junk coming out of the MSM right now has no sources at all. Perhaps Flashback but that’s that.

    I was involved in the hunt for ILOVEYOU ten years ago. That too went nuts with stories all over the place. (Fortunately I was neighbours with the guy who found the source.)

    I think the best policy this time is to kick back, watch the show, hope for the best, and not get too involved.

    Oh – one more thing: fight the FUD of course.

    Cheers.

  176. Pingback: Assange-gate, Sexdebatt, Rättsdebatt och Pressdebatt « Aktivarum

  177. ‘So it is now confirmed by Swedish police that Anna Ardin is one of the women making the allegations.’

    It is? Then another crime has been committed by the authorities.

    ‘I always thought this is a very strange way to react to a “rape”.’

    Yep. But Sweden’s definition? They had a campaign a few years back trying to teach women they could have been raped without knowing it.

    ‘There have been suggestions on here that it could be something like that. There is sketchy evidence that AA has a history’

    She wears her character on her sleeve. She’s no mystery – not for someone from Sweden. But she’s admittedly scary and repulsive. Just not mysterious.

    AA’s group believe that one way they can transform the world (to their liking) is to attack men by bringing false charges of rape. Not that this is connected to the current story, but still and all – that’s the mentality. Men are bad, heterosexual sex is an attack, penetration is a violation of the woman, only lesbian sex shows mutual respect, etc. These views are not hard to find – especially on Södermalm in Stockholm.

    I like this board. Good people.

  178. The world really, really needs WikiLeaks—but not necessarily Julian Assange. He may be charismatic, brilliant and eloquent, but his recent behavior and history are neon signs pointing to a deeply troubled person. This story—and unfortunately the discussions around it— are getting nastier by the minute. CIA/Pentagon involvement or not, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that Assange’s actions were at the very least irresponsible and naïve, and at worst criminal. So I say let’s move on. Let’s stop hero-worshiping a very flawed human being and focus instead on making sure that the organization he founded survives.

  179. I know it sounds outrageous that women and girls could be raped without knowing it but it is actually true. Some women are so used to forgetting or putting aside their own needs to make way for what others want of them that they don’t realise that their sense of boundaries have been completely erroded by for example, an abusive family, partner, or social set. I have seen it happen myself and felt the pressure of it too when I made friends with the wrong people. I was strong enough to walk away but I know of women who have been convinced by their rapist that they were to blame because they didn’t let him in the front door. The blame always goes back on the victim. Always. And he or she is left wondering “WTF is wrong with me?” and “I must be a very bad person”.

    This is a large part of what makes an accusation of rape against a good and innocent person so powerful. It is highly _shaming_ and shame has the effect of making people instantly close up and withdraw which also makes them look more guilty. A perceptive and thoughtful man like Assange would know that and unfortunately those very qualities snowball the shaming effect.

    Putting it out in the open like this, magnifies the effect.

    By discussing intimate moments of high subjectivity such as sexual encounters, we are _contributing_ to the shaming process! Is that not part of the FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt)?

    Bytheway her blog is up again: http://ardin.se/

  180. @bon_fim – I am not ready to hang Julian Assange out to dry without the facts. Just as we should not hang the Anna Adrin nor the other women out to dry without the facts.

    Now this story is really going to start seriously blowing up as bigger more powerful agencies and groups pile in with their own agendas to take advantage of the situation.

    The Pentagon has already been tweeting about this story since it first broke. Feminist groups are piling on to push their agendas. It sounds like a legal abuse organization has jumped on board bashing the prosecutors. Anna now has some bigwig feminist lawyer. Julian now has some celebrity lawyer looking for the publicity & limelight. Wikileaks fans may be split between pure Julian fanboys & those who just want to know the truth. Then you have all the tin-foil conspiracy theorists jumping on board.

    What was starting to look like a very grey situation, is going to be pushed (along with the people involved) into very polar directions to support their agendas.

  181. Pingback: Meet Wikileaks Founder’s Alleged Sex Victim | Defamer Australia

  182. Pingback: Wikileaks founder Julian Assange charged with rape, molestation [update: charges dropped] - Dateline Zero

  183. bon_fim said “The world really, really needs WikiLeaks—but not necessarily Julian Assange.”

    Wikileaks reached to the current successful direction thanks to the stewardship of JA. If someone wants to derail Wikileaks, they would simply take away one by one the leaders and core contributors.

    What we should say is that it is utterly suspicious to have this whole situation, and we reserve any judgment until after this clears up.

  184. Popcorn: Sofia Wilén did not ‘fully’ take down her website.
    She removed the ‘index.html’ file from the website, but the rest of the links and photographs are still there.

    1. Google for ‘Sofia Wilén’, then click on the ‘Cached’ link under her website.
    2. The links work, including the page to her hotmail e-mail address.

  185. Pingback: Wikileaks may be ‘stateless’ but it ain’t news | Thesis Weekly

  186. @Anonymous, thanks for sharing the story. I agree that the court has a right to know what happened although I think with many people thinking Assange has been setup by powerful interests, they don’t trust the courts to deliver justice and have done their own investigations. Since the bizarre way the crimes were reported are linked to bedroom activities, it’s those that have come under most scrutiny to see if they stand-up. You say that: “I know it sounds outrageous that women and girls could be raped without knowing it but it is actually true.” If that is true, I can’t imagine Assange had the time to “emotionally breakdown” the girls before the events took place. I think what you’re suggesting is that Assange maybe “took advantage” of two emotionally “vulnerable” and “submissive” women? But in view of AA’s apparently ardent feminist stance, does she really seem like that type of woman? Thanks for the blog link – it had already been noted it was up and running in an earlier comment although strangely the CV, Photos and Thesis sections have been removed….

    @Rick, Yes I think the first paper that mentioned condoms was The Guardian and I think they used the vague terms, “sources close to the girl say”. By the way, can you elaborate on your claim that “Sweden had a campaign a few years back trying to teach women they could have been raped without knowing it?”

    @bon_fim, I’m not sure we can conclude Assange’s “recent behavior and history are neon signs pointing to a deeply troubled person.” First we don’t know precisely what his actions were during what happened, secondly, can you expand on his “troubling” history?

  187. LOL, calling the two women “vulnerable” and “submissive” is really funny! From what I can see of their behaviour in media and the blog writing of one of them I would hardly call them that! Resourceful and assertive would be more fitting. If the ID is accurate.

    But i do see one vulnerability showing through their armour, and that is jealousy. I speculate, yes, but psycholically I think that is what it boils down to. When they found that they had been in bed with the same guy they were jealous. But instead of butting heads with each other, they decided to go after him instead, using the standard weapon of Swedish feminists – a sexually related court case. They have rehearsed it in their chats long ago, for (/¤(/(#)/%& sake!

    And please forget Pentagon and CIA! No way, IMHO! These chicks have a totally different agenda.

  188. the link somebody provided to Sofia Wilen’s homepage via cache doesn’t seem to work anymore. I have no experience in the technical aspects, but is it “normal” that the cache vanishes this quickly, too?

    could somebody perhaps summarize again what kind of info is out on the second accuser? and was there ANY mentioning of HOW theses two woman met, specifically on who of the two approached whom FIRST?

    I find it disturbingly odd how there is such a mass of info on the web about AA – all of which can easily be read as pointing to some feminist fanatic going overboard (I’m not saying that myself – just trying to summ up how many people and commentators take this apparently) while at the same time there is as good as nothing on this other woman to be found.

    Phrasing some rather paranoid and TOTALLY FACTLESS thoughts: wouldn’t it be VERY convenient for any party involved in the conspiratory angle that AA’s biography and ideology shines out so brightly – thus working to weaken any suspicions of a set-up by other parties?!

  189. @admin: ‘@Rick, Yes I think the first paper that mentioned condoms was The Guardian and I think they used the vague terms, “sources close to the girl say”.’

    Then I put this to you: how could they have reached these sources? What makes any of us think the Guardian could have got these sources to speak out? IMHO they’ve been surfing @ Flashback with Google Translate or the equivalent.

    @tg: ‘is it “normal” that the cache vanishes this quickly’

    I’d assume for now Google caches are beyond the reach of citizens of Sweden or even members of the cabinet.

    @tg: ‘wouldn’t it be VERY convenient for any party involved in the conspiratory angle’

    I think you perhaps haven’t thought through that properly. ;)

    @bluemouse: ‘She removed the ‘index.html’ file from the website’

    I think I already pointed this out earlier in this thread.

    @Celsuis: who called these women vulnerable and submissive? LOL Could that be their solicitor? For they’re quite the opposite – and I don’t think your new adjectives do them justice. At least not the one. She’s more like Arnold’s love child in Terminator XIX.

    @admin: ‘@bon_fim, I’m not sure we can conclude Assange’s “recent behavior and history are neon signs pointing to a deeply troubled person.”‘

    OMG WTF LOL who said that? That’s funny.

    @admin: ‘AA’s apparently ardent feminist stance’ Ardent is a fantastic word. But given the evidence, that description is like saying a female Bengal tiger has long fingernails.

  190. The latest news is that the decision whether to press charges has been delayed again until tomorrow.

    We can only assume that this is either because the charges are so dubious that there’s no clear legal precedent or that the decision has already been made to drop the charges but to save the reputation of the public prosecution service because of all the fuss its caused, they’re dragging it out to make it look like it was a very close call and a lot of investigation has being going on over the past few days to sort it all out.

    @Rick, I used the word “ardent” feminist to describe her to try and find a diplomatic middle ground between other words that have been used to describe her such as “feminazi” and “Arnold’s love child in Terminator XIX” as some feminist readers on here have been understandably offended by it. As regards The Guardian’s sources, it wouldn’t surprise me although surely they’re aware they are taking a big risk by doing so.

    @bluemouse, Nothing has been removed from Google.

  191. FLASH: Finné has spoken.

    http://bit.ly/cEUm4L

    1. The ‘other girl’s’ story is fully dismissed. She was the one accusing Assange of outright rape; Finné finds Assange did nothing wrong at all.

    2. It’s ‘Madame Terminator’ who first said the offered her story only to support the other girl who is pushing forward. The name of the alleged crime hasn’t been named.

    3. They say they now want to interview Assange.

    This poor Ardin isn’t going to want her laundry hung in public.

  192. Seems to be so many exceptional flaws and unbelievable errors by the Swedish prosecution authorities, even though they seem to be implying ‘normality’ here.

    A man can apparently be accused of rape, named, and then the charges withdrawn, but might be re-instated, – is an example of incompetence we might expect from the Pentagon but not Sweden. One would expect more sense from a pantomime.

    http://goo.gl/OCCN

  193. Thanks for the update anonymous. I guess we can say half a decision has been made then.

    A final decision will be made when they’ve finally spoken to Assange. After all this time, it will be his first chance to put his version of events across to prosecutors.

  194. I think it’s pretty easy to see what’s going to happen now – unless Langley attempt a kidnapping. (And no, there’s no extradition treaty what I know, so don’t speculate about that. It’d have to be a good old frat boy kidnapping.)

    This is all going to be down to a girl who thinks everybody else on the planet has a warped perspective. From a purely clinical POV, this is the subtle but dangerous between neurosis (where you’re aware you’re not perfect) and psychosis (where you’re not).

    This could be 1) low key; 2) fun; and 3) really fugly for the girl. I don’t think Assange has much to fear any longer but they still might try ‘dirty tricks’.

  195. For anyone interested in both WikiLeaks and this case, the SVT link above provided by Rick is a very interesting presentation by Assange.

    He is speaking as a guest of the Christian Brotherhood political party and giving a presentation on WikiLeaks on the 14th August literally hours before one of the first incidents is alleged to have happened. Incidentally, AA was his press secretary during this time and can be seen sat to the right of the screen at the front. Seems to have some major technical problems are the beginning of the presentation too.

  196. Julian Assange should get married? Those types of sell out ideas are not liberating, and , I find, reactionary. As in, he needs to cool it and be conventional? Yuck. Wow. No wonder nothing changes for the better.

    and bon- deeply troubled? How easily you are manipulated. Assange is (still) a hero, intelligent and innovative, how quickly you jump ship, especially when the wind is blowing the wrong way in this media circus.

  197. http://bit.ly/dptyVT

    Silbersky is good with words. He’s written detective novels on the side.

    ‘Du milde tid’ – I can’t translate that LOL but it’s not good for the prosecutor’s office. He’s exasperated, one might say.

    ‘This is a scandal. He’s been stigmatised all over the world as a rapist and now it boils down to a misdemeanour with a possible fine when a competent prosecutor gets to review the case.’

  198. PS. You’d think that people in the country where English as a 2nd tongue is spoken second best in Europe (after Holland IMHO) could do better with their ‘press releases’ at the prosecutor’s website. Then again I’m painfully aware how they ‘think’ they can speak and write English. Oh well.

  199. Rick

    “PS. You’d think that people in the country where English as a 2nd tongue is spoken second best in Europe (after Holland IMHO) could do better with their ‘press releases’ at the prosecutor’s website. Then again I’m painfully aware how they ‘think’ they can speak and write English. Oh well.”

    What do you exactly mean with that??? Why don´t you translate from swedish to english yourself?

    Chefsåklagare Eva Finné har givit utredare i uppdrag att förhöra Assange med anledning av misstanken om ofredande.

    – Jag vet inte när det kommer att ske, säger Finné till TT.

    Den första misstanken, som till en början rubricerades som våldtäkt, avskrevs redan i lördags. Finné har nu även avskrivit misstanken om sexuellt ofredande i det fallet.

    – Innehållet i förhöret ger inte stöd för att något brott begåtts, skriver Finné i ett mail.

    “Detta innebär inte att jag inte fäster tilltro till hennes uppgifter. Jag har studerat innehållet i förhöret för att se om misstanke om annat brott kan anses föreligga, i första hand ofredande eller sexuellt ofredande, men finner vid min analys att så inte är fallet”, utvecklar hon i ett pressmeddelande.

    Advokat Claes Borgström som företräder de två kvinnorna är mycket kritisk till åklagarens beslut. Han tänker begära överprövning i båda fallen.

    – Det är helt klart för mig att båda fallen rör sig om sexuellt ofredande. Jag ställer mig mycket frågande till det här beslutet, säger han till SvD.se.

    Han ifrågasätter även hur det fallet som nu lagts ned kan gå från att rubriceras som våldtäkt till att nu inte ens klassas som sexuellt ofredande.

    – För mig som läst samma material som åklagaren är det mycket svårt att förstå den bedömningen.

    Advokat Leif Silbersky anser att fallet fått orimliga proportioner och lägger skulden på den jouråklagare som fattade beslutet att i fredags kväll anhålla Assange i hans frånvaro.

    – Jag anser att hon har begått ett avsevärt tjänstefel. En kvalificerad åklagare hade kunnat göra bedömningen att det inte handlade om varken våldtäkt eller sexuellt ofredande.

    – Hon borde aldrig ha bekräftat för medierna vem som var huvudman. Det är väldigt otäckt, han har stigmatiserats över hela världen som en våldtäktsman, ett av de värsta brott vi känner. Det här har förorsakat min klient enorm skada.

    Hur mår han?

    – Han är arg, ledsen och besviken på det svenska rättssystemet. Men han mår hyfsat, han vet ju att han inte har gjort någonting fel, säger Leif Silbersky.

    Julian Assange anhölls i lördags av jouråklagare, misstänkt för bland annat våldtäkt. Ett knappt dygn senare hävdes beslutet av chefsåklagare Eva Finné.

    Fallet har fått stor uppmärksamhet runtom i världen och både medier och åklagarmyndigheten har kritiserats för offentliggörandet av misstankarna.

    SvD.se har sökt Julian Assange för en kommentar till dagens händelser.

  200. @admin: ‘@Rick, that’s actually an old story from 4th August.’

    Oh goodness. Davis commented on it today. Examiner – Scientology ads plastered all over the place. Makes me wonder. But her rhetoric seemed good at the time.

    Now Twitter have several additional right wing nuts saying Assange is guilty of treason (in the US).

    Someone needs to call the gene pool cleaner. Here we shall go for a lovely late summer stroll. ;)

  201. P.S. To all swedish speaking persons, let them use lousy translators on the web! D.S.

  202. @nicholas and @everybody for that matter…

    Unless I am mistaken, no one on this board personally knows Julian Assange. We all think we have a “fix” on his character because of all the information that’s out there on the internet for us to consume and analyze. So, yes, I am basing my opinion that he’s a “troubled” person on everything I’ve read—and by doing so I don’t discount his importance or his very significant accomplishments.

    As for being easily manipulated—well there it is, isn’t it? We are all being manipulated one way or another, let’s at least be honest about that. I hope to be proved wrong about my assumptions thus far. I HOPE this isn’t once again, the case of a man whose public pronouncements are at jarring odds with his private behavior.

    @skye

    I haven’t jumped ship. I’ve made it pretty clear that I am a huge WikiLeaks supporter.

  203. @Rick: Thanks for the link. I think the clip is up on Youtube as well – albeit much fuzzier. If anyone has a transcript of Assange’s speech I’d love to read it. Much as I admire the man’s message I’m afraid his delivery is a bit soporific.

    Does anyone know if there’s a possibility that Mystery Woman 2 (MW2) could be in the audience at this event? I’ve heard competing reports as to whether AA and MW2 knew each other prior to their allegations against JA.

    I am NOT- I repeat not – a conspiracy theorist but given the C.I.A.s interest in JA doesn’t it seem logical that there would be at least one spook in the audience at this event?

  204. @bon_fim, Fair enough. If you can enlighten everyone with what you’ve read about Assange that strikes you as “troubling”, please do. I can only speak personally but I have no idea of what he’s like in person. I’m reserving judgment based on the information that’s emerged so far regarding this case.

    @vincible1, There were early reports that say they met at some kind of an event although I can’t remember where they were published. Not sure about the spook theory but if the Americans are monitoring his movements regularly, then quite possibly yes.

  205. @Say what: The trial of TPB was in Swedish but partly in English because of the testimony of John Kennedy. The court chose a translator who had neither English nor Swedish as a mother tongue. It was cringeworthy to listen to and there were incorrect translations at several times. The ‘translator’ was in way over his head. Adequate language skills 1) are absolutely necessary; and 2) way misunderstood in Sweden. This is the opinion of most people in the translation business where I worked myself for several years.

    JA needs to know what’s going on. Especially already in the first interrogation. This is critical and I assure you that the people in that prosecutor’s office cannot speak/understand English fluently.

  206. SvD: ‘Assange angry, sad, disappointed’

    http://bit.ly/cVHTEp

    What we’re looking at here – lest we forget – is in all likelihood a narrative by ‘T20′ that Anna Ardin considered full out rape but Finné doesn’t find out of line at all. I think this adds further grist to the suspicion Ardin – as expressed on Flashback – ‘has one big screw loose’. Remember: it was she who encouraged the other girl to contact the police in the first place.

    *T20 is Flashback talk for the 20yo girl.

  207. @vincible: according to this telegraph article, the women’s lawyer has said: “The women went to the police on Friday. Mr Borgstrom declined to say how the women had met, except to say both attended the lecture Mr Assange gave in Stockholm.”

    http://bit.ly/aZXwcX

  208. Expressen (OK don’t laugh): http://bit.ly/aA78lz

    So it’s Expressen, so take along a bucket of salt. But one tidbit is interesting.

    ‘Kvinnan berättade att hon haft sex med Assange under hans Sverigebesök’

    ‘Sista gången gick han för långt, sade den unga kvinnan när hon kom in på polisstationen i Stockholm.’

    This implies 1) that they had sex several times but 2) ‘he went too far’ the final time.

    Feeling more confused and inundated by tabloid BS than ever.

  209. http://bit.ly/aA78lz again – and no I don’t take this at face value. But still the same.

    ‘Enligt Expressens källor har hon berättat att hon hade frivillig sex med Julian Assange.’

    According to Expressen’s sources she has told people she had consensual sex with Julian Assange.

    But wait a second – Expressen boast they’ve had contact with this girl but can’t get her to talk about the incident? And then the magical reporters there somehow reach people who have contact with her friends who openly talk about it? Uh…

    ‘Men hon var noga med att sätta gränser när de var intima.’

    But she was careful to set limits when they were ‘intimate’.

    WTF does that mean?

    ‘På tisdagsförmiddagen hände dock något. Enligt kvinnan struntade Julian Assange i vad de hade kommit överens om kvällen innan. Han gick över gränsen, har hon berättat.’

    On Tuesday morning something happened. According to the woman, Julian Assange ignored what they’d agreed to the previous evening. ‘He went too far’ is what she supposedly said [to someone].

    ‘Efter händelsen skickade hon sms till flera vänner där hon berättade vad som hade hänt. Och polisen har tagit del av innehållet i hennes mobiltelefon, enligt Expressens källor.’

    After the event she sent SMS messages to several of her friends where she told them what had happened. And the police have looked at the contents of her cellphone according to Expressen’s sources.

    Eyebrows should go way up when Expressen use that worn-out ‘according to Expressen’s sources’.

  210. English translation of latest news on the case here:

    http://www.thelocal.se/28574/20100825/

    “Borgström also thinks that the prosecutor should have interviewed the plaintiff before making her decision. He is also unhappy that the alleged offence has been classified as molestation and not sexual molestation.”

    So Assange is not even under suspicion of doing anything sexual. I presume then that he’s being blamed merely for saying something suggestive that she didn’t like. If it’s just that, and he’s been dragged through all this, then someone needs to take a serious look at how rape accusations are dealt with in Sweden as that’s absolutely scandalous.

    Coincidental timing but there is a study here that’s been released today by right wing political party Social Democrats which has brought even more scrutiny over how rape is dealt with by the Swedish legal system.

    http://www.thelocal.se/28580/20100825/

    “Selin also rejected the Sweden Democrats claim that there is something of a “wave of rapes” sweeping Sweden, with the country enduring the highest incidence of rape in Europe. The comparison can not be done, according to Selin, the definition of rape differs too greatly among countries. Since 2005 Sweden has one of the broadest definitions of rape in an international perspective.”

    This broad definition of rape looks likely to be at the root of this entire episode.

  211. More from the prosecutor office here:

    http://bit.ly/9RzKnw

    (from tweets about Assange)

    It should be noted that they deny being the source of the initial leak, and that the Q&A format may suggest the fact that they know they are under fire for the mismanagement of the case.

  212. @admin: I avoid thelocal. It’s a mystery how they get their data. Their own forums, whatever. I don’t trust them at all. YMMV.

    ‘So Assange is not even under suspicion of doing anything sexual.’

    No, I’d say he’s not under suspicion of something that’s classified as sexual. That’s a big difference. Another diff is that adding the word ‘sexual’ heightens the gravity of the crime. As Silbersky points out in the interview, ‘ofredande’ can be as little as saying ‘you dirty so-and-so’ to someone. (But I don’t think that’s the case here.)

    ‘I presume then that he’s being blamed merely for saying something suggestive that she didn’t like.’

    That’s the question we can’t get an answer to. Even Silbersky hasn’t seen the protocol yet! As to suggestive? I don’t think so. Especially if it’s true they were already screwing the evening before.

    ‘If it’s just that, and he’s been dragged through all this, then someone needs to take a serious look at how rape accusations are dealt with in Sweden as that’s absolutely scandalous.’

    Someone needs to do that anyway, as I’ve been harping about. Any woman can make a rape charge stick with no evidence whatsoever. And as we’ve seen, the mere charge itself is enough to damage someone’s reputation. But this is part and parcel of Anna Ardin’s agenda: bring false accusations to undermine a supposed ‘patriarchy’.

    To me it looks like Ardin might have been using this other girl to advance her own agenda. But then Finné dismissed T20’s story completely. (Finné said she believed T20 – not a legal consideration – but that none of that was a crime.) And so now Ardin, who said she didn’t want to press charges herself, only wanted to ‘ask questions’ and support her ‘friend’, pushes her own story forward on her own when T20 is knocked out. Oh boy.

    http://www.thelocal.se/28580/20100825/

    Yes. Heard about that. That’s from the far right racists SD. They’re not really taken seriously in Sweden. The data might be good but I think their point is that ‘foreigners are bad’. They want to evict all foreigners like their party friends in the UK. And they only looked at – 114 cases??!??

    ‘Since 2005 Sweden has one of the broadest definitions of rape in an international perspective.’

    No kidding about that. I believe it was RFSU who had a campaign about how ‘you could have been raped without knowing it’.

    But rape is not sexual. Everybody knows that. It’s a deliberate act of violence. There is no violence in this sordid Assange story. It’s not rape.

    It could be more along the lines of that Swedish blogger who talked about ‘huggy huggy velour sex’ where a couple have to ‘re-negotiate’ what they’re going to do every five minutes. [I’ve never been a part of this myself but I’ve heard about it. Yes things can get very crazy there. But even if I were single, I’d avoid women like that anyway. I know they exist but I simply wouldn’t habituate the same places they do – and I’d run for the hills if I saw them anywhere.]

    ‘This broad definition of rape looks likely to be at the root of this entire episode.’

    See your point but I think you’re placing the effect before the cause. The reason legislation like this came about is because of the militant feminists – not the other way around. Even Kjellstrand has been called out for being a militant feminist – and for being very rabid in rape cases, jumping the gun on no evidence, etc. I think Rosander is one too. I think most women are like that in Sweden today. It’s just that some are still (for the moment) hetero. ;)

  213. PS. On ‘suggestive': there are no real taboos there in Sweden. You can say anything at any time. Perhaps not as much as Denmark but still and all. There’s a famous interview with Bruce Springsteen where he jumps up in the middle of the interview and says ‘so wait a minute – I can say anything I want here, can’t I?’ And he gets a nod and then goes right up to the camera, spitting the F-word about a zillion times right at the glass. Sits back down, the girl interviewing asks ‘feel better now’ and Springsteen says ‘yes – thanks!’ So you can’t really say something ‘suggestive’ to someone and get in trouble.

    What you can do is insult someone. Försmädelse – something like that. ‘Ofredande’ is literally to disturb (someone’s) peace. Fred = n. peace, o+fred = the opposite, ofredande = the gerund. To disturb someone.

  214. @admin, yes thanks for the correction about the police, though the point of adding the link was to show that at least one report places both of the women at the lecture, which was vincible’s question.

    Ms W’s attendance at the lecture is also implied in the guardian report which i believe someone linked to above:

    http://bit.ly/crMJE6

    within the first four minutes of the lecture video, the camera scans the audience, but i didn’t spot many 25-yr-olds.

  215. @Alberto G: there’s nothing from the prosecutor’s office in my link. That’s Leif Silbersky, Assange’s solicitor, in his own office.

  216. and yes, i’m aware that many of the claims in the press reports must be taken with a grain of salt.

  217. @ashasekh: it hurts to say this because the Guardian is one of the news sites I’ve admired the most, but I think they’re treading on thin ice these days.

    T20 was a photographer, right? So she’d be on the sidelines? If that matters, that is.

  218. So, the “molestation” is not sexual anymore, huh. I wonder, how do you molest someone with your dick without it being sexual? Or WTF are they claiming that he has done? And with what?

    @ admin. What has made you think that the Social Democrats are a righy wing party? Granted, politics in Sweden is pretty dull, they all want to stand on the same spot with some populistic rhetoric once in a while to catch fringe voters, but SAP (Socialdemokratiska Arbetarepartiet) “right wing”?!? Nahhh, hardly.

  219. @Rick – Thanks, and the connection being (metaphorically) – One can’t upset the Mafia, without repercussions.

  220. T20: There are two SWs in Enköping.

    *Sofia* Linnéa Wilén
    Sämskarbogatan 59
    74533 Enköping
    B-Day: 1983-09-17
    Ogift

    *Maria* Sofia Margaretha Vilén
    Örtagatan 14 3tr
    74532 Enköping
    B-Day: 1987-10-08
    Ogift

    The names in asterisks are their ’tilltalsnamn’ – the names they use/the names they’re addressed by.

    So there’s only one real candidate in such case. And she’s 26yo. (Remember when Borgström said they were between 25-35?)

    So T20 is actually ‘T26′. ;)

  221. @Rick
    SD is highley likely to take place in the swedish parlament, so to say that they are not taken seriously is complete bs.

  222. @Celisus, Sorry I got confused between Social Democrats and Sweden Democrats. I meant the latter of course!

    I think it’s becoming increasingly clear via everything that we know now that Assange has been accused of something that might not even raise an eyebrow in any other country. At the worst, he may be guilty of merely suggesting something that she didn’t like but Sweden’s laws are such that it could be interpreted as “molestation”.

    To make matters worse, the prosecution service has made two vital errors:

    1) Issuing a rape warrant
    2) Confirming it was for Assange when a newspaper came sniffing

    They must take total blame for the second point. The first point was either down to a lack of professionalism or false accusations that were exaggerated out of all proportion by the accusers.

    Since the women never actually reported the crime at a police station but merely wanted “advice”, they cannot be held accountable or charged with wasting police time and defamation if Assange is completely cleared. This is rather convenient for them and will leave many wondering if it was indeed a premeditated plan from the very start for ulterior motives – probably either those of a jilted lover, an extreme feminist vendetta or for political reasons.

  223. @admin: Hey! Nothing to add. Summary par excellence. But I think Silbersky might try to sue according to 2) and as clever as he is, even 1).

  224. There’s http://www.sofiawilen.com, it’s also been purged, but google cache shows that it was a photographer’s portfolio site, and google’s cache is a version from Aug 2nd… so an “SW”, Enköping, photographer, deleted website… draw your own conclusions. :)

  225. Okay, okay this thread has become way too addictive. Time to be moving on. But before I do…

    The only thing that I’ve gotten from this whole imbroglio is that it is way too easy to ruin someone’s reputation… at least in Sweden. If the C.I.A./Pentagon were involved, they wouldn’t have even had to try hard. A couple of well placed phone taps and an anonymous call to a tabloid (expressen) and voila, Instant scandal!

    It is interesting how quickly even those on this board have latched onto Sofia Wilen’s name as mystery woman 2.

    Does anyone have anything definitive to link her with either AA ot JA? (Other than the fact she’s a 26 year old Swedish artist whose last name begins with a “W.” Was she at the JA talk on August 14? Considering she was the one, as I understand it, who brought the original charge of rape, it might be nice to identify this woman before any more speculation flies as to whether JA’s troubles are a result of dirty tricks, jilted lovers, or crazy feminists.

    @admin: Kudos for a great thread. Lots of good information and discussion with plenty of links and healthy skepticism.

    @Rick: While I appreciate that you are personally discomfited by Swedish feminists, I feel your arguments would be stronger without the use of pejoratives like “scary” and “repulsive.” That being said, I have enjoyed your posts.

  226. @vincible1, thanks for the comments and info. No more info about the other woman so far but I agree it seems way too easy to defame someone for rape in Sweden after what’s happened with Assange. The only small positive that may come out of this is if they look at reforming the legal system in this respect.

  227. @Rick

    Well, since they are the headline of todays news media, and swedens prime minister made the statement “don´t vote for them” you can be damn sure they are taken seriously. And as far as their chances for taking a place in the parlament is concerned, the bookmakers sees the probability to around 92% (odds 1.07, 1 to 14). But this is very of topic.

    @The rest

    I see that the story is slacking behind in this commentary box. I can make an update tomorrow. But now, a good nights sleep.

    Au Revoir…

  228. @Pistol: YES, Pistol, I know, I KNOW – but again: read my lips: not in the way I meant. Got it now?

    @admin: Agreed about the legal system. But you have to change the *culture* too. Or first. This is not merely a clerical/technical matter. It’s a sociological thing. A really bad one.

    * You have a woman standing up in parliament (as an MP) in 2004 and proposing a ‘man tax’ to offset the cost of physical abuse of women. Note there is no mention of the other way around, even though stats show it’s quite common.

    * This same woman – today a leading feminist because she had to go into detox and was outed from her previous party for cheating on her taxes for several years – stood up and gave a speech in 2006 comparing Sweden’s treatment of women with the TALIBAN.

    And she’s only the tip of the iceberg.

    Better legislation? Sure. Thanks. But look at the present case. The first man after Julian in it was Leif Silbersky. Up to then it was 5-1. And it’s like that everywhere. The idea that Sweden is a patriarchy is nonsense, true in theory only. Sweden has long been a functional matriarchy. And the feminists are not looking for any sort of equality – they’re openly hostile to men in general. Not one particular man – the very idea of men itself.

    No way any parliament is going to even suggest a law change in that atmosphere.

  229. @vincible1:

    ‘If the CIA/Pentagon were involved, they wouldn’t have even had to try hard.’

    Correct.

    ‘Does anyone have anything definitive to link her with either AA ot JA?’

    Don’t think so. I’ve been wondering the same thing.

    ‘Swedish artist whose last name begins with a W.’

    But that was in the Guardian, right? Where did they get it? What I’ve seen, Flashback started their hunt because of that article. But how did the G get it? Ask yourself. Because I don’t see it.

    ‘it might be nice to identify this woman ‘

    That’s immaterial now as those charges are dropped.

    ‘your arguments would be stronger without the use of pejoratives like scary and repulsive.’

    That’s easier for you to say because you haven’t been exposed to them. To you it’s only words on a screen. I assure you it’s not for the victims. It’s a bit hypocritical on your part. Cheers.

  230. Pingback: The Boring Truth About Those Julian Assange Smears - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

  231. @ popcorn. Correct. Very soon you will not even have to slow down as you drive past it, the highway north of town is being upgraded towards the west. To the east, towards Stockholm, it is already very good with dual carriageway and no crossing traffic.

    But for Swedish conditions and terminology, Enköping would be a town rather that “rural village”. In their own minds, they try to call it a city… a bit too ambitious IMO.

  232. Without knowing much about Ms W, I would still like to give her some cred, from what has become known and from the guesses that can be made. She seems to be a bit less of a femijihadist (ok, admiin :-)) than AA, and may have been influenced by AA.

    Reasons are:
    She is not a politician, she has a real job :-) If she is the alleged photographer her pictures are REALLY good. She has managed to stay pretty anonymous in spite of all the people trying to identify her – well done.

    Maybe JA should have stuck to her and left AA alone…

    Yes, I admit I am speculating. I just want to be hopeful and as positive as I can, and give W the benefit of the doubt, as long as we don’t know anything else. And for me, it doesn’t matter if we ever learn more about her. In my eyes she would vindicate herself exactly by disappering from the case and never be heard of again, in this affair, at least.

    But as AA is a POLITICIAN, she should be scrutinized! She is looking for power over other people (me included, if I move back to Sweden) and that means that her views and actions should become public. That goes with the territory, she cannot complain. Or else, get out of politics and get another job!

    (And by the way, had I still paid taxes in Sweden I would be pissed off by the way she lets other people pay for hear “broken heart” sick leave from her “job”.)

  233. Pingback: Assanges verkliga brott mot Ardin: Manlig sexualitet « Aktivarum

  234. Assange is now only charged with molestation which consists in not moving out quickly enough from the first womens apartment. No sex offence whatsoever.

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7675868.ab

    Maybe this mess will bring something good for us swedes as it should increase the incitement to revise our judicial system. It is difficult to see any positive sides of this story for Assange though.

  235. Excellent blog here people. Thanks for keeping it (mostly) coherent and sensible.

    @Maria: “AA has claimed in an interview with Aftonbladet that JA wasn’t violent, which means that he hasn’t forced himself onto her. Which means that if AA wanted him to use a condom and he refused, she must have agreed at some stage to have sex with him anyway. That is neither rape or molestation. It’s just a girl who is so eager to have sex with a celeb/hero that she allows him to talk her into having sex without condom and afterwards when she realizes that he slept with someone else, maybe feels a little bit used and maybe a little bit jealous.
    So, if that is what happened, I wouldn’t call JA a rapist, just disrespectful. He sounds like any bachelor/player to me”
    As a non-radical feminist woman, I’m inclined to find this intepretation quite logical. As for JA being a ‘player’ – meh, whatever.
    Someone else said here that he doubts JA could let his judgement slip in the bedroom…well, I don’t know him personally but when animal instincts take over (and with the possible influence of alcohol), nothing is too far-fetched. Julian Assange is not required to be a monk! :)

    This whole clusterf*ck situation can very well be the result of the wrong people at the wrong time (the women), but with no secret agendas – which may have been exploited by Swedish bureaucrats & gutter press. It’s entirely possible that all of it is true and none of it is true as well.

  236. I perfectly agree that currently there’s no good for Assange, and such allegations have, unfortunately, a tendency to stick for a long time.

    Still I think that this case, if Assange is cleared from all the sexual related issues (as he seems to be at the moment), may prove useful in the future to discredit or curb future attempts against him.

    There’s no doubt, overall, that some questions will have to be answered also from a political point of view: who informed the newspapers? Why wasn’t Assange’s privacy protected by the prosecutors? Who will pay the price of such damning failure of the prosecutor office, which has internationally discredited the Swedish legal system?
    Because it has been ridiculed enough, and although someone may say that the office reacted quickly to the early mistakes there’s a widespread opinion that the matter was handled in a far from professional way.

    Someone must be held accountable for that, and it isn’t Assange.

  237. This is INSANE!

    Now they are saying the only thing Assange did that was illegal was staying a day at Ardins after being asked to leave…. (prolly cause sexual thing did not work out)

    All this for that? A day too much…. moving from the person he was assigned to help with workrelated things

    OMG! THIS IS TOO MUCH!

    Erik, Blog Aktivarum, Sweden

  238. Minke Stole:

    What do you mean Assange being disrespectful cause he (if) he is a player?

    That sound like a person who would have called Assange a slut had he been a woman doing two guys. Hardly a feminist thing to say

    Players are successful with women cause women LIKE players. The reason Monica Lewinsky had sex with then President Bill Clinton was cause she heard other women in Whiskey Hotel gossiping of the sex affairs of the boss.

    Since now everyone knows Assange had sex with 2 different women the 3 days in question, women will be all over him next place he sets up shop (as if they were not already haha)

  239. Swede

    Assange is now only charged with molestation which consists in not moving out quickly enough from the first womens apartment. No sex offence whatsoever.

    What the heck is that? Not leaving a persons residence quickly enough when asked (was he asked?) is “molestation?” That’s an um..er.. interesting definition of molestation. Why not trespassing? Does Sweden not have laws against trespassing? And why were the police not called to remove him from the premises at that time if his presence was such an affront? This is becoming comical. I guess I need understand it better but, on its face, the entire thing is absurd and absolutely smacks of a smear campaign.

  240. @Erik – Where did you read the staying too long bit?

    Also, if him staying there too long was a criminal offense, could Anna Ardin have called the police to have him removed? Or merely threated to call the police. He would have been out of there in no time at all.

  241. Maybe he committed another unforgiveable offense like not putting the toothpaste cap back on or leaving the toilet seat up? From all the reports here it seems these might be jail-worthy crimes in Sweden.

  242. Popcorn:

    Yes we do have trespassing (hemfridsbrott) in Sweden but this case is just stupid now…

    They had sex, 14 aug she was not satisfied the way he handles sexual relationship she demands he “test” himself. he refuses, she demands him out of the apartment at Södermalm Stockholm where he lived … he takes his time …. NOTHING HAPPENS…

    6 days later, she meet another girl who Assagnge had sex with (a younger woman! that one always makes women so joyful and happy =) 17 aug 3 days earlier and they both are so angry with him they press charges 20 aug. And for what?!

    Well in first case molestation…. in second case RAPE… and the rape-charge is so unbelivably stupid it takes the head prosecutor (ha ha) just a few hours to conclude it is not rape at all…

    And then we have ROSANDER…. OMG!!! Her on Al-Jazeera is the worst I have seen in ages.

    “We had information..Then she had more information”

    *cringes*

    The Al Jazeera reporter looks like he wonder if he dialed the wrong number and shes just pulling his leg.

    As if you peeps did not laugh enough when you got to see Carl Henric Swanberg “we care about the small people” Now ANOTHER swedish high-positioned person who cant speak english if her life depends on it.

    The radical feminist agenda have made people insane. They are so scared to be accused of misogny they cant even do their job remotely objective. All they can do is cover their back.

    I suspect the only reason the molestation charge is even still their is cause the second Assange is declared innocent world media will STORM the Prosecutor office and look for answers. The only thing keeping the media at bay is this tiny remaining charge.

    The idea that swedens two most well known lawyers should go up in court in a case of molestation is ridicolous. Both those two are well known media lawyers.

    The only thing going against Assange right now is his choice of lawyer. Swedish Comedian Magnus Betner said

    “If a person chooses Silbersky we KNOW he is guilty, everyone choosing Silbersky is guilty thats the rule”

    If only Assange had not choosen Silbesky he could be a free innocent man now LOL (Jk)

  243. Erik, what really doesn’t sum up is that the lawyer for the women lamented the fact that the plaintiffs haven’t been interviewed by prosecution officers, and we know Assange hasn’t been interviewed too.

    One must wonder, at this point, on which information the first prosecutor RUSHED the warrant, and where does the additional information come from, if not from interviews. It could come from the police in the form of an extended report differing substantially from the preliminary one, or the warrant could have been rushed after a phone call, or something like that. That’s another thing that the prosecutor office should clarify.

  244. @ Alberto G. There is an interesting twist to this whole business that relates to what you are bringing up.

    Sweden has very good protection laws for whistleblowers. Anyone who goes to a newspaper will be safe from prosecution by TF – Tryckfrihetsförordningen, one of the constitutional laws. It is ILLEGAL for ANYONE to even TRY to research who the cource of a leak to a newspaper is. So the prosecutors office and the police have their hands tied. They cannot even attempt to try and find out who leaked. (If anyone did, i think AA went to the paper herself and then they just had to call up the prosecutor and check. Stupidly, they confirmed.)

    Now, is that a sick law, or what?!? No it is not!!! It is an important part of civic protection against power abuse by authorities.

    AND, here is the good part. It is also exactly the reason why WikiLeaks has chosen Sweden as a base for their servers. However, they failed to understand that TF only protects media with a publishers certificate. (Which is the sick part of the law, BTW.) And it was to get that certificate in order that JA went to Sweden this time. The talk at Broderskaps as just a side show.

    I think it’s possible that one of the reasons for holding back the final Afghan docs (the “insurance”) was to finalise the application for the publishers certificate, to render the insurance unnecessary.

  245. Sweden is about to pass a law that criminalizes possession of nude pictures of yourself at age 17 or younger. An April joke? No, an actual law proposal that most likely will be enacted:

    http://www.sweden.gov.se/content/1/c6/13/68/39/7c84db92.pdf (see page 55)

    For those of you who thought the JA case and the “child porn” pin-up drawings verdict were the ultimate in legal hilarity…

  246. While this is interesting relating to the leak part, it isn’t directly related to the information discrepancy which is supposedly, at least from Rosander words, at the base of the different evaluations made by the prosecutors.

    For the leakage part, as already said, the confirmation made by Rosander might be, in itself, a violation for which she might be held accountable. At least, I hope so.

    Will, at this point, the prosecutor office want to come clear from all the mistakes prosecuting some officers? I doubt it will happen, but this is one of the factors that separates modern, civil countries from fake democratic regimes: accountability.

    I’m sorry to say this, but I had a far better opinion of Sweden a week ago. Northern socialdemocracies have always been a model to me, but I realise I’m a bit naive.

  247. Celsius

    Sweden has very good protection laws for whistleblowers. Anyone who goes to a newspaper will be safe from prosecution by TF – Tryckfrihetsförordningen, one of the constitutional laws. It is ILLEGAL for ANYONE to even TRY to research who the cource of a leak to a newspaper is. So the prosecutors office and the police have their hands tied. They cannot even attempt to try and find out who leaked. (If anyone did, i think AA went to the paper herself and then they just had to call up the prosecutor and check. Stupidly, they confirmed.)

    How in the world can that be? Even if the “leaked” information is an out-and-out lie that is intended to defame an individual? What if Assange is completely exonerated and chooses to bring a civil suit against the women, the police dept, the newspaper and whoever leaked a lie meant to defame him? Wouldn’t there need to be an investigation to determine who that “leaker” was? Another thing I am curious about – if it was suspected that the women outright lied about it all, would they not be subject to possible criminal charges themselves for lying to the authorities?

    Regardless, there is a difference between whistleblowing on a Government and/or large corporation and leaking information about an individual. The latter isn’t “whistleblowing” at all. Not by any definition I have ever heard of.

  248. blink: I highly doubt there is a law that protect those that leak information from governments and doesn’t protect those that leak other information. If the reason isn’t obvious I’ll spell it out – no government want their information leaked.

    I think your obvious double standards are hilarious.

    Our “Constitution” protects sources. That is not something that will be lifted and a civil suit, that is uncommon here, can’t budge on our constitution either. If they could, I would be horrified. This is the reason Julian Assange came here. See the irony?

  249. Göran: That is a Proposition. There is Propositions and Motions, with the difference being that the Proposition comes from the government and the Motion from the parliament.

    Both motions and propositions are SUGGESTIONS. It has to pass trough a lot of hoops before actually becoming a law. Like being discussed for a year or something. Not all propositions and motions become laws.

  250. Quote = “Kristinn Hrafnsson, a WikiLeaks spokesman in Iceland, called the sequence of events related to the arrest warrant too “remarkable” to rule out ulterior motives.

    “It is such an unbelievable unfolding of events that it would be unnatural not to consider that there is something behind it,” he said.

    A small Swedish justice watchdog group, RO, said it filed a complaint Sunday against the on-call prosecutor to the Ombudsmen of Justice, an office that investigates wrongdoing by public authorities. The complaint accused her of issuing the arrest warrant “without having enough information to make such a decision,” said Johann Binninge, the group’s chairman and founder.”

    Source = http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/22/swedish-prosecutors-defend-wikileaks-about-face/?page=2

  251. OK. From the news article in GoogleEnglish:

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7675868.ab

    > Assange lived with the woman a few days. According to Aftonbladet deals with allegations of molestation that he, since she explicitly asked him to move, stayed some more days.

    So, not only did Anna Ardin to call the police to have him removed. She also let him in & out for a few days. Didn’t lock him out, and didn’t pack his shit up and put it on the doorstep.

    I seriously doubt Julian was staying in her house for a few days & never left. It only becomes a complaint after Anna finds out he fucking another younger better looking girl.

  252. Ergo, but what about confirming the identity of an investigated person? In such case, the identification of the source is automatic (aka Rosander). Isn’t that, in Sweden, a violation of investigation secrecy?

    In my Country it is a crime for public officers (violation of office secrets), and it should be generally prosecuted, although most of the times with dubious results.

    Does that apply to Sweden too, or public officers have no obligation to keep quiet about investigations?

  253. @Ergo

    blink: I highly doubt there is a law that protect those that leak information from governments and doesn’t protect those that leak other information. If the reason isn’t obvious I’ll spell it out – no government want their information leaked.

    I think your obvious double standards are hilarious.

    So, governments are persons? Individual people and created “legal entities” are the same thing deserving of the same protections? Also, there is no difference between defamation and truth? Both are to be equally “protected?” I mean, really there is no such thing as slander and/or defamation in Sweden?

    If I go to the police and mention – not accuse – just mention for the purposes of getting advice, that this person I know named Ergo has sex with goats and then I anonymously leak that information to a local paper and that paper then calls the police to confirm if there have been reports that you have sex with goats and the police confirm that “yes there have been reports that he screws goats and we are looking into it” and the paper then prints that information, I, as the leaker of a total lie, who has defamed your character, am totally protected from any repercussions, correct? And further, that protection makes as much sense as laws protecting a person or group who exposes the inner workings governments?

    Perhaps we are talking past each other here. I am not a lawyer but here in the U.S. there is a difference between protecting whistleblowers who expose lies and corruption and protecting people who lie in order to defame another individual human being.

  254. @ blink. The leaker or source, same thing as I see it, is protected. BUT the publisher must be careful what they publish. That is the reason for the publishers certificate. The person who is responsible, editor in chief I suppose it is called, must make sure that what they publish is true and legal, i.e. not defamation. The publisher (legal entity, paper or whatever) may be taken to court if they do not follow the law regarding defamation, etc. And they may lose their certificate if they break the law, and the editor in chief can be punished.

    So there are checks and balances in the system.

    I think the one who confirmed at the prosecutor and the newspaper Expressen may be in trouble, but I doubt it. The source is safe in any case.

  255. Are you guys all supporters of the wikileaks project? Do your views reflect wikileaks values? Rick, admin, Popcorn and others, your answers would be appreciated.

  256. @ Ergo: Every time I read someone calling Assange’s (or WL’s) situation “ironic,” I see a false equivalence being drawn, as I hope everyone who believes in democracy will.

    The default for citizens in a genuine democracy is liberty, which entails privacy. The state/government has to have very very very good reasons to intrude on a citizen’s life, and that is the principle encoded in everyone’s bills and declarations and charters of rights and freedoms.

    The default for the state/government is transparency. The state/government has to have very very very good reasons to keep anything at all secret from the people, whose creature the government is.

    I take it that those are the underlying principles on which WL runs, and that’s why I support them.

    I’m agreeing mainly with blink, although from what I’ve read through the past decade, I’m not at all sure that the U.S. gov is living up to the splendid principles of the Bill of Rights when it comes to whistleblowers, or the distinction between citizens and state.

  257. The truth of the Assange-case finally arrives!
    According to article in RESUME

    Assange meets “Ms W” after the LO-borgen event on 14 august, they decide to meet later and exchange phone numbers

    Assange hade protected sex with “Ms W” on the night 16 august at her place in Enköping, on the morning 17 august they had unprotected sex.
    Later that day she follows him to the train…
    On August 18th she is worried over the risk of STD (hiv) and gets contect with Anna Ardin

    Ardin tells her about the claimed molestation on the day before the event at LO-borgen.
    However according to another news media the molestation was on the morning the same day as the LO-borgen event

    The more serious situation seemed in the media to be the one with Ms W…. However now it seems like it was Ardins molestation that was the more serious situation while whatever happened with Ms W in Enköping was nothing except “he promised to wear rubber and didnt”

    However at 20 august when the two women filed charges the two situations had magically switched places.

    Its obvious that when Ms W and Ardin started talking had both had unprotected sex although “he promised to protect himself” …Well ANGER and JEALOUSY was the result… and not cause of rape but cause of that two-timing lying SOB….!

    There you have it, finally!

    Two-timing means risking rape-charge! Cause police and prosecutors are terrified of not being “feminist” enough.

  258. @Anonymous

    When we read reports such as this => http://goo.gl/FW0n if it is true, it seems Wikileaks was long overdue irrespective of opinions of morals, values, and political leanings.

    Throughout the whole of human history never has there been a time when communication and technology can enlighten and empower those who attempt to ensure some balance in gross abuses of privilege and criminal misinformed propaganda.

    If the whole concept of Wikileaks and others of a similar nature were to fail, we cannot complain if we all end up with governments such as Burma and North Korea, not to mention many others of dubious human rights records here in the west too.

  259. skdadl: I support Wikileaks works and I do think transparency is necessary. Anything else was far from my point. I was merely explaining how the law works here. The idea that our constitution should be put on hold so that one can find who gave Expressen this information is horrifying. Not because one doesn’t want to know, but because these laws are what this country is based on. If one starts to fiddle around and break them or put them on hold thats a very slipper slope. I think you would agree that any government that would do that do not serve its citizens needs anymore.

    Blink: The source that leaked to Expressen is safe. Because thats how the law works here. You might want it to work in another way – but it doesn’t. There is laws for defamation, but the leakers of this information will most likely not be held accountable. I have not said anything about the accusers of Assange. That is an entirely different matter (No, it doesn’t matter if the leakers and accusers are the same persons) and you can stop putting words in my mouth.

  260. @Erik – Do you have a link to that article? I don’t want to jump the gun on anything.

    Also, if all the charges against Julian have been dropped except him over staying his welcome, why are we still treating Julian as a suspect and Anna Ardin & Sofia Wilen as victims?

    And they dropped the charge even before they attempted to speak with Julian. So it isn’t as if they even doubt what these two women say, It’s just what these women say isn’t even a crime.

    Right now there are roving packs of girls from the Rebella unga S-kvinnor (a feminist club that Anna Ardin leadsf) running around slandering Julian in a pretty brutal way. Calling him a chauvinist pig, a misogynist & just about every other name in the book. They are running around saying that Julian did something very wrong but refuse to say exactly what it is or how it came about. Some make an implication and when we ask how something like that could ever come about, they reply for us to just use our imagination. I think the women involved need to either put up or shut up with their accusations. Hiding behind a networking gossiping network of women who evidently have half the story & are allowed to let their imaginations run wild to perform the character assassination is wholly irresponsible.

    If Julian was a female their behavior would be called “slut shaming” & blatant misandry. (For those who don’t know what that word means, it is the female equivalent of misogyny).

    I also find that the women’s claim that they did not intend for the police to press charges and that they were merely “asking advice” to be wholly disingenuous. If they didn’t want charges pressed, why is their lawyer (who is paid to act in their interests) complaining that rape charges have been dropped and that there should at least be sexual molestation charges. And this is for both women. Clearly they both want & wanted Julian charged, but they want to blame it on some other 3rd party like the police and pretend they are innocent helpless women caught up in it all.

  261. @Boadacia – Interesting read. But that is all about some conspiracy theory that external forces, e.g. the CIA, is running a smear campaign to discredit Julian.

    Now you will have to back that up with some facts… or at least some probably paths to investigate.

    Are you implying that Anna Ardin is a secret agent? Or some prostitute available for hire? Or had some point of leverage where she was convinced to take Julian down?

    Or are you implying that Sofia Wilken “T20″ is one of the above? Admittedly the on-line foot print of Sofia Wilken is extremely sparse. And her professional website was only set up in August. But she does appear to have a background at a University & friends so she does appear to be a real person and indeed a photography, if only an unaccomplished photographer.

    I’ve looked with a skeptical mind, but to date, I just don’t see anything more apparent than two groupies (one a radical feminist) having sex & getting pissed when they find out they are not the only ones in town in on the action.

  262. Google translation of the First part of the Resume article that spells out the time line:

    “Resumé have reviewed police documents and talked to sources with good transparency in the affair Julian Assange. Here is the short version:
    A young woman in Enköping, here called Mary, saw a few weeks ago Julian Assange on television and became curious about Wikileaks revelations. When she saw that he would speak for the Christian Socialists in the LO, she reported to the castle, took time off from work and went to the lecture.

    • Saturday, August 14:
    Mary helps Julian Assange to buy the right computer cord before the presentation. Afterwards she waits while journalists interviewing him and becomes medbjuden to a late lunch. The two will then take the underground rail to Cosmonova and go to the movies. He is the crayfish party in the evening and Maria goes home with the promise that they will meet more.

    • Sunday, August 15:
    Mary tries to call Assange, but his mobile is switched off.

    • Monday, August 16:
    Maria Find Julian Assange after work, they meet in Munkbron and decides to go to Enköping. In her apartment, they have protected sex.

    • Tuesday, August 17:
    In the morning, the couple has unprotected sex. Julian Assange moving a meeting at Aftonbladet and they go to the train. Mary pays all the time, because he says he has no money. Julian Assange promise to call.

    • Wednesday, August 18:
    Mary is anxious to have been infected with something, at worst HIV. She has demanded that he should use condoms, but is upset that he did not do it in the morning. She makes contact with a woman, we call her Hannah, who has been involved in arranging Julian Assanges Sweden visits and loaned his apartment to him. Hanna says that Julian Assange days before the meeting of the LO-bond exposed her for what is now suspected molestation. “

  263. @Popcorn

    Not so much any implication, – as a sharing of any information I, or other interested parties, are yet to see.

    As whether it’s feasible, or if any evidence is available, is another whole bag of worms of possible conspiracy theory v suspicious coincidence.

    It may be difficult for some of us to imagine people with a zero internet footprint, but they do exist. (come meet my mother) :)

    Just a personal opinion, but Julian seems to court situations of controversy and danger frequently, and might even enjoy it, possibly related to his upbringing, so all this current news should be no surprise considering the enemies he’s bound to attract.

  264. @ Boadacia. “If the whole concept of Wikileaks and others of a similar nature were to fail, we cannot complain if we all end up with governments such as Burma and North Korea, not to mention many others of dubious human rights records here in the west too.”

    Agree 100%. At present it seems that it is the US government we should worry about. Wikileaks seem to upset them more than anyone else, right? (NB. I do not imply any spook conspiracy in this case, though.)

  265. Popcorn wrote:
    “I’ve looked with a skeptical mind, but to date, I just don’t see anything more apparent than two groupies (one a radical feminist) having sex & getting pissed when they find out they are not the only ones in town in on the action.”

    Two groupies?

    These two women were both working for WL. Ms A was organizing the seminar, promoting Wikileaks work and taking care of WL Leader, offering her home to him etc. Ms W was apparently working to promote WL work as well as a photographer – she is a professional in that, and both of these women are clearly very educated.

    So there’re two quite educated and useful volunteer workers for the WL. Both of them do their volutary work for this organization and in addition they both take care of Julian’s needs, offering food, a safe place to stay etc. It is very clear that an organization like Wikileaks needs those kinds of volunteers.

    What is the structure of this Wikileaks organization?

    There is one leader, a celebrity of sorts, although a radical, and then there are countless of volunteers without a name that we never hear of but who do the work. Wikileaks as an organization is not just one man. The good work that Wikileaks has done hasn’t been done by just one man. That one man, Julian Assange, only takes the credit of that all. The invisible workers do their work without fame and glory and without pay – instead, they donate their money, their time, their energy, their skills, their networks etc for the good cause. How are these people treated in return?

    They are seen as ‘groupies’. They have also been called as whores. One fan of Julian in FB site suggested that Ms A should be mentally raped because that’s what she deserves. There’s been a lot of disgusting misogynist trash thrown at these two women who’ve been used and abused by the WL Leader and then harassed and stalked by WL Fans. Who made this internet community a jury or a judge? And yet there’s already been a trial based on Google translations, poor reading and judgement and lack of understanding in cases like this. Like in this thread too. Where a handful of men get to declare Julian as an innocent victim of those dirty rotten Swedish feminists, and Julian’s abusive behavior as ‘normal bachelor way of life’. But what Julian has been doing with these two voluntary workers has clearly been use and abuse.

    Well, this is just something that happens in cult groups and organizations all the time. Cult leaders often misuse their privileged position and abuse their followers, especially those in the inner circle. All kind of abuse including sexual abuse is seen “as normal” but also as something to not talk about openly, a secret, hush-hush. The cult leader is seen as innocent, pure and as someone who’s “done sooo much for the cause” and so in cases where cult members are posing critical questions or complaints, they are always blamed for controversy and judged by the majority of the cult group – being blindly lead by their privileged leader. Those who have anything against the leader or the undemocratic, unequal ways of the organization are deemed bad, they are being demonized. The boss is always right, even when he’s wrong.

    Now, I’m not saying that WL is a cult group, just that there is nothing unusual in this case. Abusing power is what they do in corporations and governments, religious and political groups, various kinds of organizations etc – it’s everywhere. And now I see that it is also in this organization, that I’ve deeply respected and admired.

    I still respect and admire Wikileaks. But I do not admire Julian Assange’s misconduct, as revealed with this case. IMO Julian smeared himself, he did it himself, and no amount of blaming and finger pointing will save him. He should take responsibility of his own actions, but maybe he’s just as incapable of doing that as other privileged leaders in this world. Sad.

  266. I have to agree with Ulla that Julian Assange is the architect of his own misery. Instead of “dirty tricks”, it was Julian’s own behavior than landed him in this mess. For goodness’ sake, if a woman asks you to use a condom, then use a damn condom. It’s that easy.

    It was undoubtedly a hard lesson for him to learn that with Wikileaks boom in popularity, his personal life would now be of interest to his fans/supporters, and detractors. And as the face of a organization dependent on donations, that his actions in his private life can determine whether enough money will be raised to keep the servers running for another month.

  267. Ulla, weak performance, you’ll have to work on those rhethorics some more, it really is rather easy to see through that …

    “Now, I’m not saying that WL is a cult”, “And now I see that it is also in this organization that I’ve deeply respected and admirred”

    … mhm … of course …. yeah sure …. 0.o

    apparently somebody figured this blog is to WL friendly …

  268. I consider most data gathered from different sources informative, but far from conclusive, and far less than reliable.

    Assange’s recollection of facts still isn’t known, not to us, not to the prosecutors. Before that having an opinion on someone’s behaviour is premature. I have, at the moment, half an opinion, but it won’t be public because it’s based on what I consider, mostly, hearsay from unreliable or unconfirmed sources, therefore subject to radical change.

    I’d prefer to keep all the feminist/relationship with power issues out of the story in absence of conclusive evidence. This case is deeply related to these subjects, but synthesis comes after analysis, and as a person involved in the treatment of information I’d consider the data insufficient for analysis. Garbage in, garbage out.

  269. Ulla and Colleen, I’ve been a feminist for fifty years, but I am very uncomfortable with the melodramatizing of whatever happened in this case, of private and personal truths we can’t know and don’t need to know and shouldn’t know unless a crime was committed.

    Ulla, suddenly you are imagining that Assange is a veritable cult leader? How did you get there? I suppose that if you’re a novelist and you know his background, there’s a certain verisimilitude, so you can spin a good story from that, but that’s all it is — a story that might be interesting … if it weren’t damaging to a real human being.

    Seriously: all we know is that three adults, one man and two women, appear to have had sex. Is anyone fainting yet?

    The melodrama is precisely the stuff that the American media run on, that keeps the people of the U.S. mostly anaesthetized and therefore unable to stop their own government from raping the rest of the world. Why would you want to contribute to that when you have no information to back up your fantasies?

    Me, I have no difficulty at all believing that a woman can sometimes be spiteful. I also have no difficulty at all believing that people can often get in over their heads and then just keep making things worse because they are embarrassed to tell the truth. I don’t know the two women involved in this case, but I have seen the valuable work that WL does, and I’ve listened to Assange talk. He does not strike me as someone who would shrink from telling the truth, however personally embarrassing it might be.

  270. I’ve been a bit out of the loop for the past day on all this but it’s been interesting reading your comments. Thanks to everyone for keeping it civilized (more or less).

    I still don’t think anyone can jump to conclusions about what happened yet because the crucial details still aren’t clear and more revelations seem to be leaking out on a daily basis which keep changing the picture. Most importantly, Assange himself hasn’t been given the opportunity to publicly give his version of events although much has leaked out about the women’s.

    However, I notice that some are now questioning Assange’s “motives”. Did he abuse his popularity and their hospitality to sleep with them? Sure it’s possible. But isn’t it equally possible that the women themselves were eager to sleep with the “hero”? Or are all women too pure to do that?

    There are two things we can say with absolute certainty however.

    1) Assange is definitely not guilty of rape. Someone should be held accountable for labelling him as such and for the defamation that’s followed but it looks like no one will. That in itself is a scandal.

    2) WikiLeaks will continue with or without Assange. He made it clear quite some ago that he will leave the organization anyway at sometime in the future to pursue other projects.

    The second point is the most important. Assange’s personal business is something entirely separate from the work WikiLeaks is doing. Whether or not he has been the victim of a plot, WikiLeaks will continue to thrive which for people concerned with greater transparency of abuses of power in the world, is the most important thing of all.

    It’s probably about time now that people returned to focusing on WikiLeaks work than the personal life or potential plots to frame the man who founded it.

  271. Assange learned the hard way not to hang out with radical feminists. Especially in Sweden.

  272. I find some of the comments here amazing.

    WL a cult? Julian Assange some evil molester who presumably ran out of condoms but didn’t *force* any of the sex, but these women were coerced by hypnosis by the cult leader into submission, but later realized the master plan?

    There’s as much logic there as Kim Jong-il’s Equality Commission.

    I’ll just wait for the evidence to come. :|

  273. admin: it wold be nice in a perfect world if personal was separate, but that is not reality, try telling Clinton and the thousands of politicians, etc, brought down by their “private business.”

  274. The greatest logic ever is saying “Who made this internet community a jury or a judge?” to defend the women from people who formed an opinion based on facts that presumably were told by them and then putting Assange on trial and condemning him in the same comment. A trial in absentia, whose outcome has already been decided without the defendant even being entitled to speak.

    Sincerely, some opinions may be reprehensible, but Ulla’s logic defies credibility. That’s prejudice.

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  276. A great conversation folks thanks. Something is nagging at me in all this is the one character without which this smear campaign could not work and that is the on duty prosecutor Maria Häljebo Kjellstrand. She made these charges and then what? She disappears? Doesn’t she have a job somewhere or do Swedish prosecutors have that much latitude in “dropping out”. I understand that her husband works for the barely educated Minister of Justice. Her role is uniquely damaging and her disappearance incredibly convenient. Anyone have background on Kjellstrand?

    Thanks Lionelle

  277. @skdadl: well stated, thank you.

    I too am amazed by the melodrama that has unfolded around both camps, as if each side feels it must make use of the elements of opera to solidify their case.

    Most of the media plays right along. Cannot speak about the Swedish papers as I am too reliant upon google translate to make an assessment, but the American press has missed the boat: either they are ignoring the story for the most part, or they gleefully make it worse.

    Reasonable people nowadays, I think, realize that calling the women whores is an unacceptable mode of slut-shaming. But the feminist groups seem to have compounded the problem by disseminating information that cannot be verified and remains one sided: for example, though AA has claimed through intermediaries that the issue arose from non-use of a condom (at least that’s what the papers and the translations say), we still have not heard the other side of the story. Yet everyone is willing to hang Assange out to dry.

    While I think it is not too credible yet that the spooks were behind this event, you can see that the conservative US media is furthering the CIA/Pentagon cause in its wake.

  278. @Skye:

    You say: “it wold be nice in a perfect world if personal was separate, but that is not reality, try telling Clinton and the thousands of politicians, etc, brought down by their “private business.”

    The difference between Clinton and Assange is a government can be brought down by a sex scandal – a grassroots internet based project like WikiLeaks can’t be. There is no real center of power to WikiLeaks which is why it is such an inspiring project for those concerned with re-empowering democracy and why WikiLeaks – and the potential of the internet is general – is so utterly terrifying to traditional powerful interests.

    @Ulla, Wikipedia defines Cult as “a groups whose beliefs or practices are reasonably considered strange”. If you believe that trying to bring more transparency to abuses of power is a strange thing to do then yes, it is a “cult”. If however, as I suspect, you mean Assange is somekind of David Koresh for the 21st Century who seeks absolute hero worship and demands to have sex with all of his female followers, then I don’t.

    @Lionelle, It’s a good point and one of the most crucial moments of the entire story. Whether or not the evidence pointed towards rape, why on Earth did she confirm Assange’s name when Expressen newspaper called her? This blog claims that the Swedish justice department – of which her husband is chief as you say – has close links to the CIA. Even the UN condemned Sweden for what it concluded was collaboration between the Swedish justice department and American secret services in the abduction of two Egyptians. The report says:

    The Swedish authorities’ handing over of Ahmed Agiza and Mohammed El Zari to the custody of US and Egyptian agents, outside the rule of law, makes Sweden complicit in their rendition to US custody.

    All this goes to show is that the the department that Kjellstrand’s husband presides over does sometimes cooperate with American secret services. It proves nothing in the Assange case and all we’re left with is wild “conspiracy” specualtion unless something more concrete comes out. As for her position now, I know that an independent justice organization has called for an inquiry into her conduct and Assange’s lawyer has condemned it. Since what she did was completely against the policy of the public prosecution service, there should surely at least be some sort of disciplinary measures or internal investigation going on.

    18:30 Update 27th Aug: The lawyer for the women now wants to “re-charge” Assange with rape on both girls. He says:

    “I’ve read through the girls allegations again and found two reasons to suspect Assange of rape in one case and both rape and sexual assault in the other.”

    He adds confusingly:

    “However, there’s room for interpretation of the law but no doubt in my mind. He had sex against their will one way or the other.”

    Oh, and Expressen now claim the girls “didn’t know each other”. So we’re back to the consual-sex rape situation again. This is turning into a real shocking indictment on the Swedish legal system in respect to sexual crimes and Expressen newspaper’s reporting integrity. Or it’s just meant to be a confusing distraction away from a more serious plot.

    Full story here:

    http://tinyurl.com/37zln2s

  279. Ulla wrote:
    “Two groupies? These two women were both working for WL. Ms A was organizing the seminar, promoting Wikileaks work and taking care of WL Leader, offering her home to him etc. Ms W was apparently working to promote WL work as well as a photographer – she is a professional in that, and both of these women are clearly very educated. So there’re two quite educated and useful volunteer workers for the WL. Both of them do their volutary work for this organization and in addition they both take care of Julian’s needs, offering food, a safe place to stay etc.”

    Yes groupies. Wanting rub shoulders with someone famous for the thrill. You make quite about about their efforts for a weekend worth of work. It isn’t as if they spent a lot of time doing work for wikileaks outside of that. Sofia just popped in out of no where after seeing Julian on TV. Educated women? So what? You should see what kind of fools some women make of themselves to get close to musicians back stage. Education doesn’t seem to be the defining characteristic.

    Ulla wrote:
    “It is very clear that an organization like Wikileaks needs those kinds of volunteers.”

    LOL. I’m thinking that wikileaks could very well do without these kinds of “volunteers”. Pop up to spend time with someone famous, get them into the sack, get pissed when the relationship doesn’t turn out like they expected and then throw a huge hissy fit over jilted love. It soon becomes all about them. Clearly Drama Llamas. I’ve seen their type before in volunteer efforts like this. If the mission is so important, don’t sleep around & then ask people to take sides, and malign other people. It’s all about the attention & martyr complex.

    Ulla wrote:
    “There is one leader, a celebrity of sorts, although a radical, and then there are countless of volunteers without a name that we never hear of but who do the work. Wikileaks as an organization is not just one man. The good work that Wikileaks has done hasn’t been done by just one man. That one man, Julian Assange, only takes the credit of that all. The invisible workers do their work without fame and glory and without pay – instead, they donate their money, their time, their energy, their skills, their networks etc for the good cause. How are these people treated in return?”

    Most of them like it that way. I certainly wouldn’t want to be in Julian’s shoes. Believe or not there are many people in this world who do good work and don’t want any recognition at all. They take satisfaction from doing good works & seeing the results. And they wouldn’t want it any other way.

    I don’t see Julian taking credit for all of their work. He is the spokes person. A public face that yes, people tend to throw credit at, but he also takes all of the flak.

    Ulla wrote:
    “They are seen as ‘groupies’.”

    I think the shoe fits.

    Ulla wrote:
    “They have also been called as whores. One fan of Julian in FB site suggested that Ms A should be mentally raped because that’s what she deserves. There’s been a lot of disgusting misogynist trash thrown at these two women”

    Yes. I have seen that kind of misogynistic abuse. Not as much as I would have expected. I avoid using derogatory female terms myself. But this is a two sided coin. The misandry I have seen coming from Anna & Anna’s friends & her Young Rebel’s political ground has been even more over the top, vicious & derogatory. I haven’t seen such sexist ideas and language in a while. The hierocracy is overbearing.

    Ulla wrote:
    “who’ve been used and abused by the WL Leader”

    What abuse? The charges have been dropped. Give us some facts or quit your yapp’n with these unfounded accusations.

    Ulla wrote:
    “and then harassed and stalked by WL Fans.”

    That I disagree with. But Anna supporters have been at least just as bad. A mirror needs to be presented to both sides.

    Ulla wrote:
    Who made this internet community a jury or a judge?

    Are you saying I can’t make a decision, or evaluate information just as you are doing? What makes you more special than me?

    Also, Anna has done an interview to put her spin on it & made accusations to slander a man in the public eye. She is feeding her spin to her “friends” which gets leaked to the press to put her spin on it. She even has her political group trying to sway public opinion & think of the man in a bad way. They have their lawyer busy doing interviews, spinning facts & public opinion. If Anna really doesn’t want the public or the make an educated assessment of the information she should be quite & have her lawyer do the same & ask her friends to stop trying to spin stuff perform character assassination. You can’t have your cake & eat it too.

    Ulla wrote:
    “And yet there’s already been a trial based on Google translations, poor reading and judgement and lack of understanding in cases like this.”

    You under estimate us. This is just a lousy excuse as to why you are entitled to think & make evaluations & we are not. I am sure I could find some reasons as to why you are not capable to make decisions or evaluate information too.

    Ulla wrote:
    “Like in this thread too. Where a handful of men“

    You assume we are all men?

    Ulla wrote:
    “get to declare Julian as an innocent victim “

    We didn’t. The prosecutor did. They dropped the charges.

    Ulla wrote:
    “of those dirty rotten Swedish feminists,”

    The worst I have heard about Swedish feminists are from Sweds themselves. I’ve seen a lot of really good Swedish feminists who do truly believe in equality & fairness. And I’ve seen a lot of Swedish feminists who are nothing more than misandrist. These are the ones who have become the female version of what they claim to hate so much. It appears that some Sweds seem to think that the feminist power base has gone too far in Sweden to create an abusive power base. I personally am withholding judgment on that as I learn about the Swedish laws & power structure.

    Ulla wrote:
    “and Julian’s abusive behavior as ‘normal bachelor way of life’. But what Julian has been doing with these two voluntary workers has clearly been use and abuse.”

    Julian’s life is anything but normal. As far as ‘abusive behavior’ or ‘clearly been use and abuse,’ you are going to have to spell out what exactly that abuse is so I can make a determination. Then I can start to make an evaluation. But as it stands now, you are just dishing out unsubstantiated character assassination not unlike the other misogynists.

    Ulla wrote:
    “Well, this is just something that happens in cult groups and organizations all the time.”

    Trust me. I have studied cults. Wikileaks is no cult.

    Ulla wrote:
    “Now, I’m not saying that WL is a cult group, “

    And I’m not saying that you beat your spouse/boyfriend.

    Ulla wrote:
    “But I do not admire Julian Assange’s”

    Hey, you totally free to not like the guy.

    Ulla wrote:
    “misconduct, as revealed with this case.”

    Spit out the misconduct.

    Ulla wrote:
    “IMO Julian smeared himself, he did it himself, and no amount of blaming and finger pointing will save him.”

    No. He has mostly kept his mouth shut and has not cast derogatory about the women in this case. The same cannot be said of them. As far as I am concerned he has acted in a far more upstanding responsible manor than anyone else involved. The only thing I fault him for is to continue to make the 3rd party conspiracy allegations when it seems unlikely. But he may just be paranoid in this respect.

    Ulla wrote:
    “He should take responsibility of his own actions, but maybe he’s just as incapable of doing that as other privileged leaders in this world.””

    I think Anna & Sofia should take responsibility for their actions & Anna at least is incapable of doing so. I’m willing to spell out exactly what I mean by that if you want, but this response is long enough as it is.

  280. @admin
    I honestly believe the two women did not know each other before Sofia volunteered to help out with Julian’s visit. The story of Sofia’s involvement has been consistent. The story has been that Sofia say Julian on TV & was coming into town & decided to call up to help out.

    I have not seen any information to support Sofia as being involved in any of the political circles that Ann runs in, much less a political person or a feminist.

  281. @Popcorn, Thanks for clarifying. I thought initial reports by Expressen were that they “knew” each other.

    Still find it odd though how Expressen are concealing the name of these two Swedish soccer stars on trial for selling sex (one of them who plays for the national team) but blurted out Assange’s name within seconds of learning of his arrest warrant.

  282. @admin
    On the football star issue, perhaps Expressen learned their lesson? Or maybe they took a long look at the ethics of publicly printing names of people who have not been convicted of a crime?

    Also, as far as the public interest goes, men picking up prostitutes is not a direct threat to the public.

    Personally, I think prostitution should be legalized & regulated to eliminate abuses of an underground market. Plus, I have heard one to many arguments from women who say the feel like they should have every right to sell sex. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own.

  283. Pingback: Julian Assange Loses His Cool To ‘Rape Victim’ Anna Ardin – Wikileaks Is Scooped | Hot news Trend

  284. @baltica, Thanks for that tip. That’s the first I’ve heard she’s actually standing for election as councilor in the Bromma-Kungsholmen part of Stockholm. Interesting. For those that don’t know, Sweden is holding its national election in September.

    @popcorn, But didn’t Expressen reveal the name of that Swedish police chief who was buying sex which also wasn’t a direct threat to the public?

  285. @admin – Hmm… a police chief using prostitutes. Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

    If they announced it after conviction that would be fine. I don’t see use of prostitutes as an imminent threat that cannot wait.

    Prior to conviction… that would depend if they knew it was true & also that corruption was preventing a real trial.

  286. BTW I think it is pretty much confirmed now the Sofia Wilen is in fact the 2nd woman in this story.

    Girl #2 was reported to be at the conference.

    This girl in pink, seated in the front right, was taking photos all through out the conference.

    Composite of photos:

    Sofia’s artist profile picture:

    Just pink girl’s conference full face screen shot:

    Location of full face shot in youtube of the conference:

    Profile pic of pink girl at conference:

    Sofia Wilen’s profile pic (I think this was from Facebook before she deleted):

    Same bangs, same facial structure, same work, same style, glasses look the same in the blue profile pic with the thicker top.

  287. Pingback: DUdies for August 27-31 « Not Your Sweetie

  288. @ admin/popcorn. The police chief in question was clearly a first class, five star asshole. He also used the most effective cover possible to hide his Mr Hyde side – he was a radical feminist! Yep, yuo better believe it! He has been making a lot of money travelling around making talks and seminars about gender issues and gender power struggle. There is a word in Swedish, a femijihadist invention, called “konsmaktsordningen” (with dots over the first o, sorry, wrong keyboard) which basically states that men always have the upper had so there must be affirmative action and gender based quotas all over the place. I have not seem any translation into any other language.

    Do an experiment! Search for “genusvetenskap” in the Swedish version of Wikipedia. Then click on some of the translations to other languages. Take a look at which has the LONGEST article. Swedish, of course, because we are “more advanced” in the field, unfortunately.

    Femijihadists seem to have a plan to take over society bit by bit and one way is to completely impregnate universities with their propagandistic teachings. For a politician it is very convenient to become a feminsist as it replaces any need for competence.

    Ulla, if there is ever a “cult” in Sweden right now, it is radical feminism!

    The idea is that gender equality is not about equal POSSIBILITIES to succeed in life with whatever you wish to do, but equality in RESULT. Hence, all facets of society must have a 50/50 gender distribution. Except, of course, the gender study departments of the universities!!!

  289. wow, Flashback is totally a human flesh search engine!

    amazing to watch the story unfold over there, piece by little piece…

  290. @Popcorn, thanks for all that info about the second woman. Looks like a pretty good match.

  291. @boadacia, The author doesn´t seem to understand that WikiLeaks goes on with or without Assange.

  292. Miss W is a mystery. For everyone familiar with how the Swedish social-democratic party (SAP) works, with all its tentacles of sub-organisations, party-controlled companies, party-controlled labour unions and whatnot, it seems most unthinkable that they let some stranger from the street into their very inner circles, particularly not on a day when they get to rub themselves with an international celebrity in full view of the world media.

    The social-democrats are like… imagine a cross-breed of Jehova’s Witnesses and Daleks. Everything outside their own kind is The Church of Satan. If they spot any dodgy looking individual trespassing their domains, they begin to hover: “Scanning… NOT PARTY! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!”

    Miss W must have had some sort of connection to the Party to be accepted inside, if she did not have a personal relation to Miss A, which they claim she didn’t. People without a name or connection to the party couldn’t make it into the seminar even as _audience_. Miss W went straight in to the very centre. How did that happen? That’s the mystery.

  293. I can use Occam’s Razor.

    The simplest explanation for all this controversy is that Julian Assange did indeed have sex that wasn’t consensual.

    Everything happening after that can be explained just by keeping that simple premise in mind. Everything.

    The two women acting the way they did, their complaints about consensual sex turning non-consensual. Their fear or rage over that matter.

    The Swedish officials’ reactions. The police handing the case to the public prosecutor means there was enough substance in what the women told there. The prosecutor agreeing with that in the first place. Another prosecutor seeing that there isn’t enough evidence to make the case hold in court. (Notice however that she didn’t doubt what the women told the police.) Someone in police or prosecution told Expressen. The newspaper would never accept such a story from anyone not officially authoritative enough.

    That Expressen’s first story was indeed vague and strange. My first reaction to that story was that it’s so not true, can’t be true, that it’s so incomprehensible that it just must be part of a smear-campaign. After getting more and better info I changed my view. Anna Ardin corrected Expressen’s first weird story with her own information but that only means that she too saw how incorrect the first story was. Media stories must always be eyed with a critical view: who is telling this story (+ understanding his/her point of view).

    Jerlerup wrote in Rebella unga s-kvinnor’s site that ”Det är som någon, jag tror det var Johanna Sjödin, sa:
    Det verkar lättare att tro på gigantiska konspirationer än på att en man kan ha betett sig grisigt.”

    Translation:
    I think it was Johanna Sjödin who said that:
    It seems to be easier to believe in gigantic conspiracies than one man having behaved like a pig.

  294. @Ulla’s Quote = “It seems to be easier to believe in gigantic conspiracies than one man having behaved like a pig.”

    Or conversely, and possibly similarly, two groupies who’s sexual/idyllic expectations didn’t quite come into fruition, even though presumably agreeing on unprotected sex, (from their non-violence statement) – and then changing their minds, after the event? How about, – “Not again thanks, and especially as you’ve run out of condoms?”

    Not much sense here, I think.

  295. Wow, I go away for a few days and look how the garden has grown.
    @Ulla: Occam’s razor could definitely apply to the original events – i.e. unprotected sex – but falls way short of explaining the events that followed.

    Unanswered questions persist:

    1 Who leaked the story to Expressen and why?
    2 Why was SW grilled for four hours by the police? And who did the interrogation? Presumably it wasn’t Celsius’ Police Chief but that’s not spelled out.
    3 Whose idea was it for AA to “lawyer up” and hire an attorney – who now seems intent on scoring political points at JA’s expense?
    4 And who is paying for that attorney anyway?

    I too find it totally easy to accept a scenario in which JA behaved “like a pig.” Too many men think their penises give them immunity from responsibility where sex is concerned.

    What troubles me in this case, however, is the sheer number of people and organizations out there who stand to benefit from JA’s publicity troubles. This is not proof of a conspiracy. But it does give one pause. Whether JA is the victim of “dirty tricks” or not there is no arguing the fact that there are hordes of folks who would be delighted to see him – and by extention Wikileaks – smeared in the press.

    I still find SW to be an intriguing enigma. She seems to be the one person in this drama with nothing to gain by bringing JA down – unless she is more than she seems to be. And we won’t know the answer to who she is till she cashes in by telling all to People magazine. :)

    Incidentally, I know nothing about Swedish law pertaining to Rape/molestation/harassment cases. Is it possible in Sweden for a woman to accuse a man of harassment and remain totally anonymous throughout the trial? Anyone?

  296. There is something like a perfect storm happening here, wildly disparate povs coming together and conspiring against one single person, who as far as we know has done nothing wrong.

    Somehow, the Disneyfied pop culture that most Western people live in (ooh! sex! naughty! tell us more!) has linked up with a hyper-PC version of feminism (he wasn’t violent but we feel violated anyway), all of which turns out to be very convenient for the most powerful mass-murdering imperial regime ever known on this planet. Whether they organized this “scandal” or not hardly matters; I’m sure they’re going to be happy to exploit it.

    The prosecutors should be investigated, as should both of the accusers. And JA should have a chance to speak safely in public. As far as I can tell, he has been prevented from doing that so far, which itself is a scandal.

  297. vincible1 asks: “4 And who is paying for that attorney anyway?”

    Pro bono, perhaps. So far, anyway.

    Note however that the solicitor in question, Claes Borgström, has a law firm together with Thomas Bodström (former minister of justice). Both are high-ranked members of the social-democratic peerage.

  298. @Ratcid, There is no indication that anyone needed an invitation to attend the Assange talk. As far as I am aware, it was on a first come, first served basis. During the Q&A session afterwards, there were questions asked by The Pirate Party (who’s representative kept calling WikiLeaks “Wikipedia” by the way :)), journalists and others. There is no indication that it was somekind of Social Democrat “Church of Satan only” gathering as you suggest. Wilen apparently became aware of Assange after seeing him on TV, heard about the event and managed to get in although it’s not clear exactly how. Perhaps if there’s anyone out there that was at the event, they can shed some light on how they got into the event?

    @Ulla, You use Occam’s razor theory (the theory that most things can be explained by the simplest theory for those that don’t know) and conclude that “Julian Assange did indeed have sex that wasn’t consensual.” Since after much deliberation, the public prosecution have already thrown out the rape charges and reduced the “crime” to a “non-sexual molestation” then your conclusion in clearly wrong. Unless you think that the entire public prosecution knows less about the law and evidence than you do? vincible1 also makes some very good points as to why your interpreation of Occam’s theory doesn’t stand-up in this case.

    vincible1@ You say”Miss W seems to be the one person in this drama with nothing to gain by bringing JA down – unless she is more than she seems to be.” I agree. I suspect that she wasn’t the one to instigate this. I think it’s more likely that she was coherced/bribed/blackmailed into doing it by the other woman. It’s only speculation though until more is known about her.

    @skdadl You say: “Whether they organized this “scandal” or not hardly matters; I’m sure they’re going to be happy to exploit it. The prosecutors should be investigated, as should both of the accusers. And JA should have a chance to speak safely in public. As far as I can tell, he has been prevented from doing that so far, which itself is a scandal.” I completely agree.

  299. Okay, Here’s yet another tabloid account of the saga. Paints JA as a total dick. Very detailed and totally one sided. The author claim’s as source material: “…The Mail on Sunday has managed to obtain copies of the women’s police statements, which are made available to the media in Sweden.” (strange grammar for a supposedly English paper)

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange–women-involved-tell-different-story.html?ito=feeds-newsxml#ixzz0xwyjHsS0

    The author’s name is Angella Johnson. Does anyone know anything about her or what the Mail’s politics/biases are?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange–women-involved-tell-different-story.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Sample of the reporting:
    “…The next day Woman B tried to call him but his phone was turned off. She eventually spoke to him on the Monday when he agreed to meet her in the evening and suggested they spend the night at her flat.

    She wanted to go to a hotel, but he said he would like to see her home.

    Again she bought his £10 train ticket because he had no cash and said he didn’t want to use his credit card in case his movement was being tracked.

    He spent most of the 45-minute journey surfing the internet on his laptop, reading stories about himself and twittering or texting on his mobile phone.

    ‘He paid more attention to the computer than to me,’ she said bitterly.

    It was dark by the time they arrived in her suburb and the atmosphere between them had cooled.

    ‘The passion and attraction seemed to have disappeared,’ she said.

    Most of what then followed has been blacked out in her statement, except for: ‘It felt boring and like an everyday thing.’

    One source close to the investigation said the woman had insisted he wear a condom, but the following morning he made love to her without one.”

    As many on this thread have indicated, the events described in the article may or may not be true. But what is glaringly missing from the whole tabloid piece is ANY inclusion of Assange’s point of view.

    IMO At best, this piece is really questionable journalism. At worst? Well, you decide.

  300. What a drama! Despite all the Mail’s efforts the “crime” still seems to boil down to this:

    “The two women talked and realised to their horror and anger that they had both been victims of his charm.”

    The mail is a right-leaning rag, more respectable and less yob-ish than the Sun. But a tabloid nonetheless.

    Notice, too how they reporter makes a show of wanting to “protect” the identity of the women but then goes on to describe SWs bright pink sweater in a small audience.

    Guess it’s all coming out now, except, as you rightly point out, Assange’s side of the story.

  301. Other people’s sex lives — Lord, save us all. The Mail is moderately conservative trash, but it’s trash, and truly, who wants to know?

    This is an incredibly silly story, and if this is what the Swedish prosecutors are running on, they are idiots. I repeat: I’m a feminist; I joined my first women’s lib group in 1968; and I think these women are giving us all a bad name.

  302. @vincible1
    the report is based on the police statements provided by the women. The information source is noted. Plenty of facts about the women’s testimony & we know it came from them.

    Fact based reporting is the best kind around.

  303. And this is rape and molestation of the women? And abuse of power by JA? What?

    By their own testimony, these women were responsible for JA’s well being when he was at their houses. They owned the houses, the food, the internet :) and apparently all the money. Plus he was dependant on them for organizing everything and getting him everywhere and even his personal safety.

    He was obviously not into having sex with either of them (by their own testimony), very understandable considering his schedule and stress levels, and yet they managed to have sex with him in both the evening and the morning. Both of them. On consecutive days.

    They gave him money and took him to dinner which they said had no strings attached, and then demanded sex for it. And when it wasn’t good enough, they took advantage of his more vulnerable situation and attacked him.

    Julian Assange has been raped, molested and sexually harassed. I have no idea how this could be seen otherwise.

  304. @ Kailey. That is exactly the conclusion we must arrive to if we use the same rules of judgment irrespective of gender. But that is sooo far from reality these days. The weaker sex, huh?

  305. Very interesting comments. Some were hilarious and analyzed well. Miss W was set up by the same person that knew AA and was kept discrete. I find her to be distracted at the seminar. Her goal is to somehow trap JA. Both women knew what they were doing and pretended not to relate to AA.

    The man in the seminar with a white shirt asked AA about Afghanistan might be a con that was staged by AA’s cousin Mattis. May be there is a military affiliation that is infiltrating the seminar. AA must be cautious as they may pretend to support him by volunteering, but their goal is to set a trap for AA.

  306. I got confused with the names. On the last statement, I mean JA must be cautious as they may pretend to support him by volunteering, but their goal is to set a trap for AA.

    My question is why did the prosecutor and other officials are on leave? Is it perhaps they want JA to linger on in Sweden? I think JA should leave and let his attorney handle in his absence.

    My suggestion that American and British media should put pressure on Sweden and enter the court. I mean just bombard the court area by their presence. The Swedes will be terrified and embarrassed by the world attention.

    I also read above that AA is the candidate for some election office. If this is true, then either she will get sympathy from the people to vote for her or if the foreign media could simply thwart that election would be for the betterment of Sweden.

    AA seems a radical communist or nazi. AA might have support from radical fems that dominate the major positions. These women are not civil or intellect as they are part and parcel of some destruction.

    I hope JA stands tall and fights like a man. If he achieved such a great heights with Wikileak internationally, we can better expect great results from now on. Fingers crossed!

  307. Ulla,

    You seem to be slightly negative about JA when we have not heard a single word of verbage against these women. What a nice gesture from his part. Men normally would retaliate, but he is respectable and might confide with his attorney.

    The two females are changing their stories. It is good! They are going to hang themselves. I want them to talk as much as possible. The less JA talks the better for him.

    About the consensual sex you are talking about, I know what you are referring to biologically. I think if it was non consensual and they agreed upon, then it is not a rape. The first woman mentioned that she did not want JA to stay longer is because her intention was not to be his friend or serve him. She wanted out of there as either she did not get what she was looking for or she wanted to destroy him asap. I hope JA did not reveal any information to her or she has recorded. What if she had a wire tap or a bug somewhere in the room and those Expressen or the Police Officer listened to their conversation. Then, she does not have to report. They know it all.

  308. admin,

    You stated, “journalists and others. There is no indication that it was somekind of Social Democrat “Church of Satan only” gathering as you suggest.”

    raticid was referring to how social democrats which is mixed version of Jehovah witnesses and Daleks and they assume that anyone outside of their denominations are church of satan.

    Kailey,

    I too think that JA has been raped. These women knew that JA needed assistance and was vulnerable. They were expecting more than that and JA perhaps was returning their expectations by means of having an affair. Men know when a woman is onto them. It is sad that after all that they initiated the good samaritan gesture and then turn around and smear scandals is quite damning.

    May be now they think that they are above him and are trashing full nine yard. I have heard from a colleague of mine who came on an assignment as a consultant that Scandinavian men are quite macho men and the women are subservient, but I am appalled that these women are totally nuts. I think they are village girls and they have no manners and ethics.

    So far, JA has done pretty well. He knows what he was doing. It is the women that are defeated and scorned. They are simply boiling and it is the reaction. I hope the Police Officer and the Prosecutor just throws the case. I have a good feeling.

    The other lady AA must be a prostitute and well known in the CIA/her cousin’s military circle. No wonder, these pros get high positions in the governments. Sorry, I am bitching here. I don’t normally do that. After all it is anonymous network.

  309. After watching his various video appearance, I feel that he is a sheep with big brains. That said, good night! Be safe, all of you!

  310. Celsius and Kailey,

    I think Kailey is right about her analysis. Celsius, some women are dominating and aggressive. Men do get terrified of them. They wanted some favors in return and he gave. That’s all and now move on, women! No, these women wanted to pay the revenge and tie the knot somehow after the session was over. Now, they can keep JA for long in Sweden tied up rather than for him to move on. They think they own him because of their hospitality.

    May be they are afraid that he will leave them or if they are sent by others to drag this to the mud, then that is another hurdle to resolve. Either way, both parties are trying to exploit JA. I hope JA gets away from their dirty tricks. Now, they are all over the news on purpose.

  311. @Siboni
    Congratulations. I think you’re the only person who has looked at who the man really is: An exceptionally nice guy. Unfortunately they can be greatly manipulated, just like exceptionally nice women can. Lambs to the slaughter all of them. A big brain does not cancel out a big heart.

    IMHO I think that once he had said that he would see Ms W again he honoured that even though as she said the passion had gone. He probably realised there wasn’t actually anything they had in common. To me the account reads like he was cornered into going through with the implied promise of his stay. Christ knows enough women know that feeling.

    It is not all that rare for a young woman to be so preditory. So she stalked him. He’s famous. It’s bound to happen eventually, but he’s not a rock star and he’s not used to it. When he fell off he pedestal she had put him on (as victims of stalking inevitably do) she got nasty (as stalkers inevitably do).

    The stalker then talked to the other girl who is politically motivated and you’ve got a PR disaster on your hands.

    Billy Connolly once said that being rich is the only comphensation there is for being famous. Fame is a curse. It attracts the attention of all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. Remember this man, a reserved and usually very private person, who has become famous very suddenly and doesn’t have the money or experience to defend himself against the pit falls of fame like entertainers or politicians of the same calibre do.

    Hell, he’s still backpacking and couch surfing while he rocks the world with the products of his intellect.

    I have a female friend dealing with a stalker right now. She too is fighting the stalker’s claim that _she_ has been harrassing him! He would call her dozens of times a night and she would ignore it for as long as she could until she finally picks up the phone and abuses him and then the sneaky bastard would record it and play it for the police.

    Stalkers suck.

  312. repost (sorry if this turns up multiple times)

    @Siboni
    Congratulations. I think you’re the only person who has looked at who the man really is: An exceptionally nice guy. Unfortunately they can be greatly manipulated, just like exceptionally nice women can. Lambs to the slaughter all of them. A big brain does not cancel out a big heart.

    IMHO I think that once he had said that he would see Ms W again he honoured that even though as she said the passion had gone. He probably realised there wasn’t actually anything they had in common. To me the account reads like he was cornered into going through with the implied promise of his stay. Christ knows enough women know that feeling.

    It is not all that rare for a young woman to be so preditory. So she stalked him. He’s famous. It’s bound to happen eventually, but he’s not a rock star and he’s not used to it. When he fell off he pedestal she had put him on (as victims of stalking inevitably do) she got nasty (as stalkers inevitably do).

    The stalker then talked to the other girl who is politically motivated and you’ve got a PR disaster on your hands.

    Billy Connolly once said that being rich is the only comphensation there is for being famous. Fame is a curse. It attracts the attention of all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. Remember this man, a reserved and usually very private person, who has become famous very suddenly and doesn’t have the money or experience to defend himself against the pit falls of fame like entertainers or politicians of the same calibre do.

    Hell, he’s still backpacking and couch surfing while he rocks the world with the products of his intellect.

    I have a female friend dealing with a stalker right now. She too is fighting the stalker’s claim that _she_ has been harrassing him! He would call her dozens of times a night and she would ignore it for as long as she could until she finally picks up the phone and abuses him and then the sneaky bastard would record it and play it for the police.

    Stalkers suck.

  313. Anonymous,

    Appreciate your comments. I was told by very nice females that females are very jealous of me and to watch out. I laughed out at this warning. Now, I realize I have suffered more from the women than men. Of course, there are exceptions.

    I am observant and know how women play their games, because they had ripped my life one time leaving me bleeding and helpless. I cannot discuss how they planned the game out of jealousy. It still continues, but I avoid them. I can profile them from a distance! I stay away from them and would never introduce any man I would fall in love to them.

    Yes, Miss W came to me as very distracted in that video conference. To go further, did she know anyone in the room that may have followed her or is an accomplice? Also, the Expressen or someone perhaps planted Miss W. and other woman. I did not see the other woman in the conference. Why? Because she was the only person turning around her head while rest of the people in the room were serious minded. At one point, Miss W turns around twice as if to take her snapshot. Who was the photographer that took her picture? These tiny clues lead to the big picture. Perhaps, the person that took her picture might have wanted to disperse it later on as the plot thickened. The comment above states that Expressen blurted out the name of Miss W to be in the conference.

    Yes, JA seemed to be simple hearted and a kind man. His goal is misunderstood by many. I think he needs to be protected and given the support to stay somewhere safe during his travel rather than take such insidious Jekyl & Hyde type of hospitality. Miss W came across as a disturbed woman who can possess multiple personality. They can only carry the persona for two days and then on the third day they become monsters in crime. A chameleon
    personality.

    It seems that these feminists are trying to treat men the way men may have treated in the past – a one time night stand. Men are very logical minded rather than emotional. Yes, some are, but they don’t delve on one particular segment. It is a tragedy that they are doing this to the nice people without knowing and studying the personality of the man. I somehow saw through JA and I think he reminded of myself in his characteristics and some tragedies. Not similar, but reaching to the same conclusions.

  314. Anonymous,

    This case is winnable, because JA should not give interviews to any magazine even if they offer millions. The silence is a weapon to win in this case. People cannot make a case by one sided argument. They need two to tango!

    JA should state that his initial thought was to protect himself from stalkers as he was vulnerable of any attack due to the expose of Wikileak. He needs to further state that he thought that these women were Christians and went along with them, but realized that they wanted more from the relationship.

    Again, men date more than one woman sometimes to select the right one. We saw the Bachelor segment how one man dates five women at one time and does not have to be emotionally tied up. His lawyer can raise that rebuttal argument.

    JA also should state that there was no molestation, because these women had given him the impression that they were fine from the beginning of however the relationship proceeded. He should state that he was clear to them from the beginning. The burden of proof should fall on the lawyer in finding whether these women knew each other and confided by text message or in person. This will be damaging, because they can defend on the ground that it was premeditated rather than JA imposing his presence or actions on them.

    Then, the lawyer should nail others involved and how it was handled. I think the attorney of JA should fine them enormously for defamation of conduct and heresy. This is similar to the witch hunt that took place in the U.S.
    Here, in Sweden, it is leading to “Men Hunt.”

    Kick their asses big time!

  315. @Siboni – You make a lot of various conspiracies. But the only one I potentially see is two women finding out they were being juggled at the same time getting VERY angry.

    I don’t care which side wins. I just want to see the truth come out & see that it is dealt with appropriately.

  316. @ Siboni. I don’t get it. First you say JA should remain silent and then you give a bunch of suggestions to what he should say. Logic?

    I agree with the silence bit. Give the two women enough opportunity and they will destroy their case. If JA blindly defends himself against something that he is not yet been accused of, he will just be accused of that as well, I think. Wait until the precise charges have been brought out in court. In the end, there may not even be much left to discuss, once more sensible people start scrutinising the case.

  317. The following denial was posted on Daniel Assange’s (Julian’s son) weblog with regard to some “quotes” by him that have turned up in the tabloids.

    http://www.lemma.org/

    “My Wiki dad” needs a break, ffs

    Posted On Friday, August 27th, 2010 By somnidea

    “The New York Post recently published some godawful sensationalistic tripe constructed in the main by quote-mining some comments I made on a friend’s Facebook profile concerning a certain increasingly infamous family member. I’d just like to note here that the comments in question were very tongue-in-cheek and never intended to be made public like this, much less support the conclusions of the article. The NYP did not interview me or otherwise attain my consent in any way for their publication. I have much respect for my father and his cause, and these ridiculously ill-handled allegations of sexual abuse serve only to distract from the audacious awesomeness that he has actually done.

    Also, some factual corrections: I have not been a student of the University of Melbourne for some time, and I am 20 years of age, not 21. The latter point is particularly hilarious given that my birth date is publicly available on my Facebook account. You know… that same account that they just quote-mined. It takes a certain level of skill to fail that much, it does. -.-”

    Echoing the title of This piece, evidently Julian’s son Daniel considers him very much a hero. And if what he says is true, someone is going to a great deal of trouble to smear JA.

    “quote mining?” Oh brave new world that has such concepts in it.

  318. @Celsius Agreed!

    There is nothing he could say that will not be twisted and used against him. These are the same people that demanded he come out of hiding and give interviews, then called him a megalomaniac as soon as he did.

    Stick to wikileaks topics.

    Actually, much as I love JA interviews, it would probably be a good idea if they instituted ‘talking heads’ in each country, people who preferably aren’t involved in any of the work but can deliver messages to the public and know the party line well enough to give interviews. There would be no point in attacking people that far removed from the organization, but it would give the media in each country a face to look at, and provide variety. But the media will attack whatever they do at this point.

    What to do about the media? Hmm, if anyone’s bored we could examine the coverage, rate the bias and give them a ‘spook controlled or not’ rating :-)

  319. Oh yeah, Wikileaks…. I’d almost forgot about them.

    Speaking of which, does anyone have a link to a good discussion blog (like this one) dedicated to the Afghan diaries?

    That might be one way of neutralizing the slime: get back to discussing the import of the stuff Assange and Co. are revealing. Just a thought.

  320. Popcorn: I am making my own analysis based on the above discussion board findings. I am appalled that you are taking one side of the issue rather than wait for JA to open up. We have not heard anything from him.

    Again, in any court of law, these are purely allegations rather than case evidence. The fact that they dropped charges indicate that something is not adding up.

    I am making my analysis due to the fact who JA is and what he has done to Wikileak..and how he fights for the freedom of speech.

  321. Celsius,

    I meant that he should remain silent (if you read my comments again) and not give interviews to the media and explain the details of what happened. I also meant that JA should only speak to his counsel which is kept confidential.

    If he discusses further in detail and answers those tricky questions from the interviewers, then he might say something that may haunt him later. People have made mistakes out of mis-communications and have self-incriminated thus losing the case.

    The media has a way of twisting the case and deciding the man’s fate prior to the judicial decision making. I want to warn out of goodness that he needs to be silent.

  322. Celsius,

    I apologize if I came across as being logical minded. I was concerned for JA, because I feel sometimes that he can be given false counsel. I wished that he would read my suggestions and be smart. Just trying to give him my two cents how he should conduct and be brave. He has nothing to fear if he knows in his conscience that he has not done anything wrong as they say.

  323. Thank God that JA’s son, Daniel is on his father’s side. Of course, he needs to protect his dad.

    The tabloids need to be sued…

    Good luck on Daniel’s bold defense. After all he needs to learn from his father how to be strong. We make heroes out of our children.

  324. Kailey,

    You made a great point. The curiosity of mankind is temporary satisfaction of the feeble minded. They just needed some excitement and now it all died after reading the content.

    Some have ridiculed that JA is a psy-op and a CIA and that the curtailing of the freedom of speech due to the Wikileak is causing nervous reaction that perhaps Mr. Assange was used to divert the Consitutional rights. The argument is that Pentagon would never allow leaks and if they did they might have deliberately leaked only those items that needed to be leaked.

    However, we can take this leak into broader context. One, we can fight for freedom of speech and transparency in what, how, and why factors of our government’s shadowy characteristics. Secondly, we can expect repercussion or denial from the Pentagon and create a hurdle to stop the freedom of speech. If one believes ardently that JA’s course of action to create positive outcome, then enough of civilians can make it change or vice versa.

  325. @vincible1 No, but I’m totally up for it if you want to start / find one. I haven’t had any luck myself. Maybe @admin would consider something …. ?

    If we started creating blogs to discuss the content, maybe wikileaks would start linking to them and we could start bypassing the musty media.

  326. JA should conduct live television interviews rather than in person like the one in “Frontline,” – London.

  327. Due to Ellsberg’s bravery in exposing Pentagon papers in the past only gives me the confidence to believe in JA’s work. However, Ellsberg did face the wrath of Nixon. Woodward and Deep Throat did enough damage, but the freedom of speech and amending the First was not on the table.

    I guess the times have changed. Time will tell.

  328. Sorry for delays but was offline/busy most of yesterday. Some responses:

    @Vincible 1, The Mail on Sunday is the Sunday version of the The Daily Mail. It’s aimed at “Middle England”. It’s basically a more “respectable” version of The Sun – possibly could be compared with Expressen in Sweden but maybe a bit more racist. Incidentally, I usually find its reader comments far more educated and enlightening than the articles themselves (on the online version at least)

    So the Mail claims the police report has been released to Swedish media? Is this normal practice? And why are the reports not released to the public since it is they who are paying the police’s wages and not the corporate media?

    I notice it says in the report that Miss W got upset because Assange was more concerned with “twittering about his day” but I didn’t know he even had, or at least used, his own Twitter account??

    The conclusion is laughable: “Whatever the outcome, one thing is certain – Assange’s attempts to portray himself as an online saint, exposing the secrets of the superpowers, has been dealt a damaging blow.”

    I don’t believe Assange has ever tried to portray himself as an “online saint” and as mentioned several times before, his private life has nothing to do with WikiLeaks.

    @ashasekh sums it up nicely about both the Mail and the charges.

    @Kailey, I don’t think we can say that “Assange was raped” but it seems clear that the women weren’t exactly fighting him off with a broomstick.

    @Siboni, Don’t think you can read much into the questioned asked at the presentation. I’ve seen Assange asked a million times about Afghanistan in other interviews. Also, I’m still no accepting your claim that the Social Democrats are “Jehovah witnesses and Daleks” – I think saying stuff like that just reduces credibility to anything you say whatever your personal feelings about the Social Democrats. It’s hardly relevant to this topic either. I’m inclined to agree with you however that “Fame is a curse. It attracts the attention of all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons.” Of course, the flip side is that those who are famous are able to use their fame to their own advantage sometimes too. Maybe a little bit of both has gone on here and that’s hardly surprising – all that are involved in this case are human after all. BTW, No one is taking sides before JA ha spoken – this is all speculation based on what is known so far. As Popcorn says, the most important thing is not to take sides but that an open debate helps the truth to come out at the end of it all. BTW, One small request – If you could post comments in one comment, rather than making several different ones one after the other, it would make it easier to follow your thoughts (and also not look like spamming :))

    @Popcorn, I think you make a good summary of Siboni’s various theories.

    @vincible1, I completely agree. I suspect most of the discussion on the Afghan War Diaries took place on the newspaper websites – like The Guardian – that published them recently. However, debate on that, rather than continued speculation into this sordid affair would be much more productive. I actually highlighted one of the most interesting but least publicized revelations from the diaries here:

    http://nicholasmead.com/2010/08/13/why-the-public-remains-obamas-biggest-enemy/

    @Kailey, any ideas or projects that encourage more debate on WikiLeaks issues is worthy of taking forward in my mind.

  329. @admin The ‘Assange was raped’ statement was not meant to be taken seriously (hence the smiley), just to point out that he is in a far better position to make the claim than they are, considering balance of power, relative eagerness, etc.. In a normal world, of course, it sounds like two consenting adults.

    There are a great many undiscussed papers on Wikileaks, including the recent CIA paper, that could be reviewed for possible unseen relevance. Or for my interest, if anyone knows any place that discusses everything on Canada. Many blogs and news sites have posted articles, but none that I have found seem to have a community like this that has joined in on the fact finding and discussion.

    That would, of course, be all credit to @admin for the great research and moderating. Thank you.

  330. @ Kailey. I could see the irony in your “JA was raped” comment. If you would change gender of the people involved you would have a poor defenseless woman being totally dependent on a man for food and housing, so that she was “forced” to accept sex in order not to be thrown out on the street. In that sort of distressed situation, she would have to obey his every whim and fancy… etc.

    That, I think, is how radical feminists would spin it, if roles were the opposite…

    On the other hand, in all fairness; a woman jumping from one bed to the other with different men like that would be called a slut, which JA has not been called so far, as far as I know.

    I would never deny anyone the right to be a slut if they wish, though… man or woman.

  331. @Kailey, funny you should mention Canadian docs. I was just thinking this morning that it would be such a good thing if someone — a civil servant, a journalist — would give up on our MPs and get at least some of our secret Afghanistan documents to WL.

    A few journalists seem to be hinting that the government knew that the NDS (Afghan security police) were being used to launder prisoners through to the Americans for interrogation — see James Travers and Thomas Walkom at the Toronto Star, eg. Somebody has seen something. But the opposition are just not willing to press ahead with this scandal — either they’re not smart enough, or they’re afraid of an election, or more likely both.

  332. @skdadl It’s not just Afghanistan – Canadians are so used to not hearing the truth we just ignore everything, but I think there is a growing national stomach ache over everything that seems to be going on between us and the US. Passing prisoners to known torturers like the US is one, but there is so much more.

    Remember when Stevie cameron wrote “On the Take” (1994) and it was all but suppressed by Lord Conrad Black’s media empire? The problem with anything in Canada is that it is all controlled by 10 people so no one listens at all to the Toronto-centric media. IMO we need a site to bypass them and discuss leaks properly and without an agenda, then more people would leak. Right now, why bother?

    Re. the opposition, our version of democracy is a choice between three “alternatives” who all bow to the same gods. At least IMO. More information would definitely help clarify if I’m correct or not.

  333. admin,

    I am quite surprised by your lack of comprehensive skills. You need to check the earlier post by raticid. I was referring to his comments and explaining to you because you misquoted raticid’s post.

    Here again for you to read:

    Raticid

    Miss W is a mystery. For everyone familiar with how the Swedish social-democratic party (SAP) works, with all its tentacles of sub-organisations, party-controlled companies, party-controlled labour unions and whatnot, it seems most unthinkable that they let some stranger from the street into their very inner circles, particularly not on a day when they get to rub themselves with an international celebrity in full view of the world media.

    The social-democrats are like… imagine a cross-breed of Jehova’s Witnesses and Daleks. Everything outside their own kind is The Church of Satan. If they spot any dodgy looking individual trespassing their domains, they begin to hover: “Scanning… NOT PARTY! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!”

    admin, I hope you can comprehend the passage.

  334. admin & popcorn,

    I realized that you folks do not read the above comments and follow up the feedbacks. Again, you have made a mistake on the “Fame is a Curse.” I did not say that. Isn’t this so typical of what we are discussing here about JA’s case and how media tarnishes and exaggerates the events and flip-flops the statments that you have likely made on my reference.

    For your information here’s what anonymous wrote and if you read carefully you may find it was his quote on “Fame is a Curse.”

    Anonymous

    repost (sorry if this turns up multiple times)

    @Siboni
    Congratulations. I think you’re the only person who has looked at who the man really is: An exceptionally nice guy. Unfortunately they can be greatly manipulated, just like exceptionally nice women can. Lambs to the slaughter all of them. A big brain does not cancel out a big heart.

    IMHO I think that once he had said that he would see Ms W again he honoured that even though as she said the passion had gone. He probably realised there wasn’t actually anything they had in common. To me the account reads like he was cornered into going through with the implied promise of his stay. Christ knows enough women know that feeling.

    It is not all that rare for a young woman to be so preditory. So she stalked him. He’s famous. It’s bound to happen eventually, but he’s not a rock star and he’s not used to it. When he fell off he pedestal she had put him on (as victims of stalking inevitably do) she got nasty (as stalkers inevitably do).

    The stalker then talked to the other girl who is politically motivated and you’ve got a PR disaster on your hands.

    Billy Connolly once said that being rich is the only comphensation there is for being famous. Fame is a curse. It attracts the attention of all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. Remember this man, a reserved and usually very private person, who has become famous very suddenly and doesn’t have the money or experience to defend himself against the pit falls of fame like entertainers or politicians of the same calibre do.

    Hell, he’s still backpacking and couch surfing while he rocks the world with the products of his intellect.

    I have a female friend dealing with a stalker right now. She too is fighting the stalker’s claim that _she_ has been harrassing him! He would call her dozens of times a night and she would ignore it for as long as she could until she finally picks up the phone and abuses him and then the sneaky bastard would record it and play it for the police.

    Stalkers suck.

    I hope this clarifies!

  335. admin., & popcorn,

    I think once again you have not read the feedback from Anonymous who in fact wrote about “Fame is a curse,” and I was simply elaborating on this comment. Please do not attack without reading first the above comments. Thanks!

    Here’s what anonymous wrote:

    Anonymous

    repost (sorry if this turns up multiple times)

    @Siboni
    Congratulations. I think you’re the only person who has looked at who the man really is: An exceptionally nice guy. Unfortunately they can be greatly manipulated, just like exceptionally nice women can. Lambs to the slaughter all of them. A big brain does not cancel out a big heart.

    IMHO I think that once he had said that he would see Ms W again he honoured that even though as she said the passion had gone. He probably realised there wasn’t actually anything they had in common. To me the account reads like he was cornered into going through with the implied promise of his stay. Christ knows enough women know that feeling.

    It is not all that rare for a young woman to be so preditory. So she stalked him. He’s famous. It’s bound to happen eventually, but he’s not a rock star and he’s not used to it. When he fell off he pedestal she had put him on (as victims of stalking inevitably do) she got nasty (as stalkers inevitably do).

    The stalker then talked to the other girl who is politically motivated and you’ve got a PR disaster on your hands.

    Billy Connolly once said that being rich is the only comphensation there is for being famous. Fame is a curse. It attracts the attention of all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. Remember this man, a reserved and usually very private person, who has become famous very suddenly and doesn’t have the money or experience to defend himself against the pit falls of fame like entertainers or politicians of the same calibre do.

    Hell, he’s still backpacking and couch surfing while he rocks the world with the products of his intellect.

    I have a female friend dealing with a stalker right now. She too is fighting the stalker’s claim that _she_ has been harrassing him! He would call her dozens of times a night and she would ignore it for as long as she could until she finally picks up the phone and abuses him and then the sneaky bastard would record it and play it for the police.

    Stalkers suck.

  336. admin, I am sorry I posted several times because I wanted to address each feedback with their names.

    I get a feeling that you are against Assange and using smear tactics. I hope you do not distort the truth to patronize AA and SW and Expressen. Is it possible that this blog is created for the other parties to read in Sweden? I am confused.

    I am not going to contribute here, because I find this is just a smear tactics for AA’s accusers to read (perhaps?).

    Good bye!

  337. @Siboni I think you misunderstand the purpose of this forum. I believe admin, and many of the contributors are trying to look at the real evidence objectively. Of course there have been some ill-considered, or factional posts. But the majority I would say are trying to remain neutral.

  338. Seems to be pretty stagnant at the moment on the news front? (Unless someone knows differently?) I wonder if Julian will be allowed to leave Sweden?

  339. @siboni: lol, i think most people here do not intend to *smear* Assange, but are patiently hoping the truth will emerge.

    An interesting outline was posted today on Geert Lovink’s blog, though seems like was written mostly before all this scandal blew up:

    http://bit.ly/cKCalV

    He does allude to whole brouhaha: “Sovereign hacker Julian Assange is the identifying figurehead of Wikileaks, whose notoriety and reputation very much merges with his own, blurring the distinction between what it does and stands for and Assange’s (rather agitated) private life and (somewhat unpolished) political opinions.”

  340. Pun very much intended! => “Breaking news!!!” Hahahahaha, I cannot stop laughing! JA has been heard by the police, and now it seems that we finally know what he has been accused of. This is just so f-ing stupid I have to ask you to brace yourselves for this one. He is accused of breaking the condom on purpose! (OK, lay down on your back on the floor and the cramps in your stomach may go away evebtually. I am sorry to cause you that pain, but hey, what can I say? This is what I read in the news. You may want to run this through a translator if you don’t know Swedish, and you will get yourself a few more laughs, do a few face palms, etc. From Expressen’s main competitor; http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7699790.ab

    In Expressen’s piece about it there is no mention of the broken rubber; http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.2116153/assange-forhordes-av-polisen

    They seem to try to pretend that this is still about an actual crime. Their initial world scoop is crashlanding like a, i don’t know, a broken condom full of air, maybe? They want to try and delay the embarassment as long as they can I guess.

    So, JA is not even accused of removing the condom on purpose, but breaking it on purpose. How do you do that? And how will AA be able to prove the “criminal intent” (I am laughing again, got to pull myslef together here…) So the turkey became a chicken, became a feather, became… well what shall we call it now?

    This is just toooo funny!

  341. OK, I am back! Can’t be mad too long by your love/hate relationship toward JA.

    @exile:

    This whole fiasco about JA having some good moments with these females has been carried off too far judgmentally. The folks in Sweden are acting as if they are saints. They never had any affairs! The civilization just started off with Women A & B.

    I don’t believe anybody is looking at it objectively and if they did they wouldn’t jump to such a conclusion and allege it as a rape. I think there is a misconception about the relationship and the Prosecutors’ are incompetent to say the least. Expressen is making money out of this illogical story.

    @ashasekh: What do you call it, then? I think most people are competitive and do not like JA’s guts and hidden aura of brilliancy in defying the powers of this world. There is a time to be slack and time to have fun and there is a time to be serious. Even King Solomon had 1000 wives, but yet he was a man of wisdom and handled the affairs brilliantly.

    I think most people do not have a vision. It is self-centered and therefore find something to chew on so they can bring down other people desperately. It shows their true color of loyalty. JA has done no harm to them or crossed them, but just because of these silly women who pretended to be self-righteous in their eyes are now blowing it up for him.
    End of case!

    I think the Woman # B, is smitten by JA in that she is constantly reminiscing about the event on the “How he fed her with a cheese” and blah, blah, is because she wants the world to know about this romance. This is not a rape; this woman is a psycho! The encounter gone bad!

    This woman will hang herself soon if she cannot find people to disclose her affair. Lock her up in some room!

    Woman # B, is weighing on JA’s feelings whether it was real or fake. All I read here is that JA was so tired and fell asleep and kept her as a watch dog, lol. He simply ignored her as he was twittering! What else? He went after the other woman as he faked all along. There was nothing taking place. He was having a causal affair with a doll.
    Now, woman B is spreading the details prior to the case is absurd!

    Glad to hear her talk, because the more she talks the more she looks stupid and the case will be closed.

    The moment the Prosecutor says, “Case Closed,” she might have fits and faints as JA is finally out of her stronghold. Do I make sense? Or the Swedes need more grilling?

    This is a comical show!

  342. I just checked wikileak and found the new server room to be quite enchanting! It looked like a fairy land…Santa Claus coming to Sweden! Or was it this way in the ancient lands of the Isle’s? I hope I could go on a honey moon to that bunker area deep down 30 km. (enjoy the humour).

    I heard the Swedes are stuck up! They can’t have sense humor because they are rotting in the ice for too long. They are depressed maniacs! Like Woman A & definitely B!
    The sunshine JA came along and brightened their lives. Oh, how sad! It died as the even day!

  343. @ Siboni. No, no broken hearts, just… hahaha, just read above…(still having cramps!)

  344. @ Siboni, Swedes have no sense of humor? You gotta be kidding me! Read my comment above, I tell you!

  345. Celsius,

    Thanks for the hilarious update! This is ludicrous!

    Gee, this is too good to be true! The whole sex game gone awry for woman # B and as well A. These women have totally embarrassed the Swedish judicial system. I think they might be reprimanded and sent to a Psych therapy! This allegation is serious and I would like to know how they are going to finalize. Expressen is in deep waters!

    I get a feeling this was staged by AA as she is politically motivated and they simply didn’t have a plan how to smear JA. They are bringing such silly allegations to embarrass him worldwide or weltweite.

  346. Celsius,

    I find your comments brilliant! You write so well and I read all the above comments, they were hilarious. You made a great case. I might look for it soon and post it once again. I am a student of Criminal Justice graduate specializing with my thesis soon in profiling and have an undergrad in Psych. I like to profile and always say to people that Sherlock stated to Holmes that “all evidence is in the environment and all you have to do is look around, even the tiniest clue!”

    I am here trying to solve this silly case! Sorry!

    Yes, I read your above post and I simply was in a shock! I just laughed when I read Chen’s post about the Cheese and how he slept for 20 minutes and she was watching. I feel sorry for her! I think she is crying and feel bad!

    I say that they have no sense of humour in the sense because of the lousy weather and people can get delusional and depressed! They have good mood swings!

    I got the gist of your post. Yes, it is hilarious to pin point on the rubber being broken or done on purpose. What was she doing just checking on his rubber?

    Celsius, what do you mean by consensual sex? Does this mean it was mutually agreed upon? I can be dumb sometimes in this terminology!

  347. @ Sibuni. As the awful male chauvinist pig I am, consensual sex means to me that the woman shuts up and puts up and makes me feel good. Nah, not really… If a woman shows disinterest in the sex, I lose interest real quick myself too. So the problem has never occured to me that it even exists.

    In this case, it has already been determined that the sex itself was consensual. (Except of course by the idiot lawyer of AA, Claes “No Balls” Borgström – well known femijihadist and best buddy/business partner with Thomas “Stasi” Bodström, former Minister of “Justice”, and in my opinion the most dangerous man in Sweden, with an eye on dismantling democracy altogether… different story, same morons…)

    So what it has boiled down to at present is molestation.

    So, is it molestation if the condom breaks? Intentionally? Unintentionally? And how to prove it, one way or the other? Is it a crime to use (with or without intention) a low grade rubber that may break more easily?

    I think, as I have thought the whole time, that this will end up in a little puff of steam, when the last little drop of substance in this case does its final phase change and all that is left is a little more moisture in the air. Pfffttt… that’s it.

    Will the women be charged for their blatant misuse of public funds for their private vendetta? I should hope so, but the hope is very small. They will get away with it, if you want my sage wisdom on that. So will Expressen, I think. The whole system in Sweden is so infested with people who have been trained in femijihadism throughout their whole university studies, and people who replace competence with allegiance to the ruling femina-i (the z in there is not allowed:-)) dogma that, well, they will get away with it. I HOPE I AM WRONG FOR THE FIRST TIME in my predictions about this case. (Never believed the spook angle, never believed it was rape or even a sexual crime of any kind…)

    So, it will be interesting to see what comes next! It should be a lot of fun to watch the shit distribute itself after the encounter with the fan!

  348. I’m Swedish so excuse my English.

    Well, this is what happens when an internationally famous alpha male goes to bed with radical feminists, one of them is a Christian socialist to sport, without understanding the political climate in the country he visits. To be honest, in Sweden there are some rules to understand and they are:

    a) Whatever a female claims is always the truth, especially when it comes to moral issues like sex. Thus, a visit to the police with a half told story is more than enough to issue an arrest warrant on the highest level of suspicion.
    b) The moral laws are very wide in Sweden. In fact they are so wide that Sweden is now in the top list over countries when it comes to reported sexual abuse and rape. Add to that a well spread idea that females are victims no matter what has happened and there you go.
    c) Women who abuse these facts take no risks at all. They can freely smear anyone without risking any legal consequences of their acts.

    To sum it up, I’m not a really surprised over what happened and I’m also convinced that the two ‘girls’ knew exactly what they were doing. They simply wanted Julian Assange to test himself for STD’s and when he refused they decided to take revenge. The only bit that surprises me a bit is the fact that the female prosecutor used the business as usual approach on Julian Assange. Not very smart.

    /Rickard

  349. Pingback: The Entire Assange-case from Swedish perspective, analysis by Aktivarum « Aktivarum

  350. STOPPA PRESSARNA!

    Above is the link to a HUGE post in english telling the story of the entire Assange-affair from our perspective.

    We are a small blog in Sweden but we have extensive knowledge of the internal politics regarding this case. Earlier we only wrote in swedish.

    Since Assange and Wilileaks do not understand our language I did this lates post in English.

    I have been told Mr Assange himself has read it and now understand the situation better

    Erik

  351. @ Rickard. You are absolutely right (I am also a Swede). The concept of “safe sex” is a totally different thing in Sweden than everywhere else. For most people it is a medical term, but in Sweden it is a LEGAL term. Safe sex means that you better make sure the woman doesn’t sue you afterwards, and if you pay for sex, make sure nobody finds out! And if you read some strange foreign comics with naked females who look a bit young, burn them now or erase them from your hard drive! Otherwise you will be accused of having child pornography. (Don’t ask me how you sexually molest a cartoon!) You think I am joking don’t you? NOT! It happened not so long ago… this summer… in Sweden… (tear rolling down my cheek – thinking of the terrible state of my old home country… could I ever go back without feeling imprisoned?)

  352. Celsius:

    That idiotic cartoon case here in Sweden is not about molesting cartoons themselves, Its used as an “offensive to minorities” law The argument actually was even more stupid than claiming the cartoons were molested

    They said the cartoons “were offensive to children and CHILDHOOD”

    The violantion was not against any person but agains children as an ideological construct abstract.

    I am not kidding, its true!

  353. Basically we had one crazy case regarding cartoons, then we had the almost as crazy but even larger Assange safe-sex-rape case and we earlier had the case where secretary of labor Littorin was accused of hiring a callgirl years ago, thus never proven accusations themselves caused harm enough for him to resign to protect the family.

  354. @ Erik. “That idiotic cartoon case here in Sweden is not about molesting cartoons themselves.” I know that, I was ironic… it is obviously impossible to molest a cartoon, so I tought the irony would work. No?

    With regard to Littorin, I have very little sympathy for him or his party. A man who buys his academic credentials at a phony university and a party with a Minister of Justice that suggests sending purple envelopes to SUSPECTED sex buyers ” so their children will see what kind of father they have” doesn’t f-ing deserve any better!!! Littorin got his “purple envelope” in the media, and his party deserved the scandal for dismantling liberty in Sweden.

    And in general, political figures, be it Littorin, Ardin, or Assange, must realise and accept that they will be publicly scrutinised more than the anonymous masses. Hypocrisy will be punished in the eyes of the public. Making it illegal for you or me to buy sexual services will not look good if they do it themselves.

    Sorry for getting slightly OT here…

  355. I’m well aware about the Simon Lundström case. Even more fun, did you now that Dagens Nyheter (for non Swedes; a daily newspaper with good resume) was reported for child pornography when they published these Shōnen Ai pictures:

    http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter/gunilla-herlitz-det-finns-ingen-grund-for-polisanmalan-1.1152010

    Well, Sweden has a unique political climate where the extreme left wing, feministic political agenda has gone all the way into our bedrooms.

    /Rickard

  356. Erik,

    Good job on Aktivarum. Some other comments on quotes I’ve seen at your article and on the NM Twitter feed.

    ‘Since they have not yet talked to Assange the dismissal of the warrant must be made based on the same information the warrant was made upon.’

    Actually no. Kjellstrand never saw the interrogation protocol. Finné was the first. Kjellstrand based her arrest in absentia solely on a vocal report from the police. Read Erik’s article. 1:40 of interrogation with second girl was taking place – Kjellstrand didn’t see it. She rushed out to issue an arrest in absentia without even waiting for the testimony of the girl who was part of the only alleged rape case. [Says quite a bit about Kjellstrand IMO.]

    ‘Welcome to Sweden, Mr Assange. You should know that paying for sex is illegal here, and if you don’t pay, you’ll be accused of rape and molestation.’

    Keeper.

    ‘I have been an active feminist over 30 years and such claim even makes me wanna twist your ear.’

    Another.

    Also want to point out today’s and yesterday’s news:

    – WL will be partly hosted by Bahnhof inside the bunker in Vitabergsparken.
    – JA applied for work/residence in Sweden same day he traveled to Enköping.
    – Silbersky says rape nonsense will not affect JA’s feelings about this application.
    – JA was interrrogated by the police yesterday evening at HQ on Kungsholmen of all places. Aja baja.

    Finally: our opinion.

    – JA and WL are putting too much faith in Sweden all around. We know too little about Iceland but with that new MMI passed into law unanimously, it would seem a far safer place to be. Also: fewer femi-jihadists.

    – Henrik Pontén tried to bust Karlung before by planting evidence on Bahnhof servers and Karlung was lucky he could find out what was going on.

    – Håkan Roswall waltzed right into PRQ in 2006 and took away all the servers.

    – Things are simply ‘too tight’ in Sweden. Barring evidence Iceland is more dangerous, it would seem Sweden is not a good place for either JA or WL to be.

    – There is still too much conjecture here. Few of the supposedly secured details would pass the Hercule Poirot test: it’s mostly hearsay and almost never true facts corroborated by at least two completely independent sources.

    – We simply still do not see JA wanting to bed AA. The signals are pretty obvious. That very story still has something that is just not right.

  357. @Erik – Thank you for the link to Aktivarum site. In particular, your post in English was much appreciated. Trying to discern the truth of what is happening around the world is difficult enough. Being at the mercy of gossip tabloids and “Google translate” makes the task almost impossible.

    Your summation of the case is one of the most complete I have seen to date. I hope you will consider making further posts in English as more facts in the case are unearthed.

    Thanks again.

  358. @admin

    ‘the department that Kjellstrand’s husband presides over’

    No one said he ran Ask’s department. The original ref is here (corruptio.blog.com).

    http://bit.ly/dtRjJU

    ‘Maria Häljebo Kejllstrand är gift med Per Kjellstrand, han jobbar på justitiedepartementet med Beatrice Ask.’

    That’s it. No one knows what his title is there. If you do, then you can perhaps post a link. Cheers.

  359. @Rick, thanks

    The post was a summary of everything happening when it was happening. Of course as such, its not complete. We now know more than we did when it was written. Also, I wanted Mr Assange himself to have been able to read the text and understand what he was accused of and why it was this way in Sweden. For this reason there was a small time window. At the time I was writing the analysis, new information constantly arrived.

  360. Hi folks! Read all your recent post! Swedes are improving in their writing. Good job! I can understand better today!
    Sometimes, I have to translate German to English or vice versa via babel fish and it just loses its essence. Please learn English! It is an easy language!

    Celsius, humorous post about the whole sex regulation fiasco in Sweden. Poor Assange, he must be terrified about this nightmare. It is traumatizing after having such a good time with these two women and then to realize that they are indeed not what they portrayed. That is betrayal! Their mens rea and actus rea is criminal! Perido!

    I kind of pondered about the mindset of the Swedish feminazis and found it one sided. The law cannot be called a law on one side approach. We decide the case on Mens Rea and Actus Rea to sentence a person. In JA’s case there is no mens rea to harm these women whatsoever. May be the women and Expressen might have played the mischief to hang JA on their term. They knew very well that JA is an OZ and he may not know the laws of Sweden.

    Secondly, I am quite appalled at the moral issue that the Socialist Democratic left claims to portray on sex or other issues. If these women AA and woman B are from the Christian organization, then they have broken the law of chasing a man and committing fornication before God and man. What about these laws? I think there is a double standard on the part of the socialist democratic movt. Also, I have heard that if these women belong to Jehovah witnesses, they belong to a cult which has a twisted doctrine and I think they practice polygamy. They are very disturbed people. In the U.S, statistically they have low numbers of participants.

    I hope Sweden changes the laws on minor issues with regards to paying money and/or how the act was conducted. I believe the paying money is prostitution and that should be condemned if they want to apply moral standards. On the other hand, if there was a consensual sex, I think the issue about whether to use precautions should not be a matter of legal adjudication or the requirements of the courts. If these laws are such, then any woman can trap a man and create havoc as they did to Assange.

    However, Assange is a foreign civilian and on those grounds he might have protection from Australian govt. I am not sure how that works!

    I think this too will pass as the Swedish judicial system and the general populace might ponder on their clumsy legalities to have affected the outsiders (I mean foreign population), and the men of Sweden in general. I for one, believe that Swedish Govt. need to impose laws in fairness.

  361. Rickard,

    Whatever happened between JA and them, they should have kept it private, because these minor issues are of no significance. This sounds petty that these women were blowing out of proportion. After all, they were friends and then became enemies for something tiny shows they are incompatible and are not tolerant.

    On the other hand, one might predict that there was a bigger plot within this small plot.

  362. Siboni,

    I agree and so does the legal system here in Sweden, obviously. However, if a woman wants to press charges here in Sweden they can do it without risking anything. The person accused at the hand will be a molester/rapist in the public eyes even if he is cleared of all charges. I’m pretty sure this was exactly what these ‘girls’ had in mind when they walked into the police station. Especially given girl AA’s background – a Christian socialist and radical feminist that has been working with issues like this ‘professionally’ on a well known Swedish university.

    You know, the Assange case is the big exception. Assange is famous and the truth will be told sooner or later. If you replaced Assange with any other male without fame I’m pretty sure the story had been completely different and that the ‘girls’ had succeeded with their intentions one way (condemned rapist in court) or another (condemned rapist in the public eyes).

    /Rickard

  363. Pingback: Going after Assange again! The insanity of rape-politics « Aktivarum

  364. 1st September Update: Swedish public prosecutors change their mind yet again and have decided to investigate Assange for rape.

    Will try to respond to some of the comments over the past few days shortly.

    PS Thanks to Erik at Aktivarium and anonymous for the earlier update on this – I only just noticed them.

  365. We (Aktivarum) do all our updates on this in english now cause this is clearly something of interest to the world. Rape-politics in Sweden were bad but before this is insane now, its as political as terrorist-trials.

    Also in case people missed it: When we analysed the situation and made a summary in english

    Mr Assange himself read it.

    We need more people to read it and support our ability to change the crazy rape-politics of Sweden.

    http://aktivarum.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/the-entire-assange-case-from-swedish-perspective-analysis-by-aktivarum/

  366. Wow, this case is getting even more crazy. What kind of system lays charges, retracts them, and then brings them again? Totally crazy. Outside of who did what in this case, it seems to point that Sweden needs a serious reevaluation of how such cases are handled.

  367. We actually need this I am afraid.

    Sweden have during a long time been obsessed with political correctness, what is being shown and the reality are distanced more and more.

    This is not the first crazy case, it just happened to be an international celebrity this time.

  368. Maybe some of the so-called feminists in Sweden need a good holiday in Kabul teaching the women of the Taliban how their men should handle a condom, and all about correcting their perceptions of male/female interactions? It’s like a puppet-show of extremes.

    This saga of Assange presumably purposely popping his condoms and having no respect for the ladies, is downright laughable, even if there is any truth in all we read. (which is seriously in doubt)

    I look forward to the next Frankie Boyle script, based on the story. I’m sure the Swedish women would love him! :)

  369. I think the case is still just being investigated (on ever-shifting grounds) — ie, charges haven’t been laid. But it is certainly becoming a major smear campaign, just as admin’s title for this thread says. The Swedish prosecutors are actively contributing to a trial of Assange by gossip and in the press, and this latest twist raises again the question of political pressure.

    Does anyone know whether Assange is free to travel if he has not yet been charged? God, what an awful situation.

  370. Now the swedish press are putting the lid on… they are removing the blog links for the articles after too many blogs openly expressing anger against how Assange is treated.

    I will make proof and post on the blog

  371. The scary thing now is that they may want to save face at any cost and try to create a case out of nothing. For each twist and turn in this rollercoaster, the stakes get higher and higher. And JA also becomes the bat, not just the battered.

    Weird situation indeed…

  372. We need some international media…. anyone know any good large english speaking blogs to post on to create a fuss?

  373. @Erik: I think you’ve been spot on with everything.

    Marianne Ny, Erika Lejnefors, Eva Finné, Maria Kjellstrand: don’t they have any male prosecutors in Sweden? 6-1. Jules is outnumbered.

    We were thinking of returning briefly next year but now we’re going to rethink our decision. The place is just too batshit insane.

    Erik: we’ll assist in any way we can. Go to our contact page (About->Contact) and contact us if you want. We can’t think of any influential international blogs offhand but perhaps we can assist you in some other way.

  374. @ Rick. Och den värsta kärringen av dom alla heter Claes Borgström! > Sorry for going native…

    What I am trying to say is that the two women’s attorney is also one of the femijihadists, if not the worst one of them all, and he is a traitor to his gender, if you want to put it that way. Not a man, anyhow.

    Yes, I am ranting, but what is left to do now… tired… desillusioned… Well, at least I don’t live there. Not right now, anyway.

  375. What a mess. Assange is now under investigation again. The only conclusion to this is that:

    a) The public prosecutor, Marianne Ny, at Utvecklingscentrum want’s to try a completely new legal approach to the term rape. I.e. extend the laws with a new interpretation. God knows where this may end up. It could become nasty for every male in Sweden.
    b) The prosecutor at, Marianne Ny, Utvecklingscentrum want’s save of Maria Häljebo Kjellstrand’s (the prosecutor who started this mess) and the Swedish judicial system by indirectly claiming that this is not a clear case at all.

    /Rickard

  376. Oh now it looks familiar.

    This is just a case of harrassment and intimidation by the state. The methods are surprisingly ordinary but he is a trouble-maker and like any other trouble-maker they’re just going to throw anything they can at him to bully him into silence and punish him. It won’t stop Wikileaks because WL has been structured to avoid such tactics landing on all supporters at once, but they probably are hoping to intimidate other members. This was a tactic discussed in the CIA leaked document about how to destroy Wikileaks.

    Anybody who knows what it’s like to be targetted by a bureaucracy because they didn’t know or care about when to keep their mouth shut will be familiar with this.

  377. @Celsius: Absolut. Han gillar Gudrun Schymans ‘man tax’? Hallo?

    Per Celsius: it’s actually 7-1 (or 8-1) against JA because Borgström is the biggest femi-jihadist of them all – bigger than AA. Borgström made a career out of echoing the causes of the Swedish femi-jihadists. He was once the ‘JÄMO’ (ombudsman for equality). He supports Gudrun Schyman’s ‘man tax’ in Sweden to help offset the social costs of men abusing women.

    A personal comment: I’ve been twice the victim of female violence (which caused bloodshed in the one case) and surveys show that women abuse men as much or more than the other way around. Yet no one wants to talk about that. And of course there’s no proposition for a ‘woman tax’ – Gudrun Schyman would lose all her support if she so much as mentioned such a thing.

    Borgström has a law firm today together with Thomas Bodström who helped orchestrate the bust of The Pirate Bay at the behest of the Bush White House and the ‘MAFIAA’. Bodström also is very obsessed with data retention and general surveillance. Bodström is a former minister of justice. He too lacks a degree in law – and yet co-founded a law firm? Go figure.

    At the time of his appointment to the former cabinet under Göran Persson, Bodström’s only credit was his father had been active in Persson’s party – he wasn’t even a member himself!

    So Sweden has now had two ministers of justice in row who fully lack credentials in law.

    Sweden has long been a ‘föregångsland’ – a futuristic pioneer prototype of a system people have looked up to and wanted to emulate. That’s gone now. We’d planned to visit the country this year or next but are surely not going to do that in the current climate. The place has gone batshit insane.

    A lot of people have seen this coming but it’s customary to not talk about it too much in some circles.

    Jules is General Custer. Sweden is the laughing stock of the world.

  378. Truthfully I don’t want to travel anywhere right now. People see a Swedish passport and they’re going to sneer and laugh. Remember what Steve Arlo told Daryl Zero?

  379. @ Rickard. Looking at your a) scenario, I kind of lose sense of reality here. It is really scary. If that is the way it is, JA has apparently become the feminazi judicial guinaepig. Is this the legal version of making soap from your body and blankets from your hair? (Sorry for the brutal associations, but this does send shivers down my spine now.)

  380. Also I am gonna update with the story about Goran Lindstrom… he actually was one of the worst Radical feminist seminar holders we had…..

    Privately he bought sex and commited rapes, real violent rapes.

  381. @Rickard: I think you might be onto something here. Ny wants to save face for her office. But she’s just making matters even worse. We know almost nothing but we know the following (kudos to Erik).

    1. JA has been in Sweden.
    2. JA was invited to hold a speech by AA.
    3. AA and ‘T20′ (SW) contacted the Klara police on Friday.
    4. The police contacted Kjellstrand at 17:00 that day.
    5. The interrogation of T20 hadn’t completed.
    6. That took until 18:40 – another 1:40.
    7. Only then would Kjellstrand have underlag to assess the case.
    8. But Kjellstrand went ballistic, issued an arrest warrant ‘in absentia’ on ‘sannolika skäl’ (probable cause) without waiting for the protocol of the interrogation of T20.
    9. Kjellstrand’s office then corroborated all these details for Expressen who somehow got the story this early on.

    I think we have a need to pause right there. (I’m not sure there’s a jail cell dark enough for Kjellstrand.) The question is whether Ny is still playing ‘PR doctor’. She’s doing a bang-up job of it in any case.

    OMG what a weird day. All of us have to personally go on with our lives but this is totally crushing on so many levels and in so many different ways. I am really ashamed of my country. Really totally ashamed.

  382. @ Rick. And Gudrun likes to cheat on her taxes. Maybe that’s her way of creating a ‘man tax’ by default, by cheating on her own. It’s OK, she’s a woman :-/ But she still cannot get away from the high taxes taxes on the booze, hrrhrrhrrr!

    And Rick, I think I did a similar exposé of the B&B law firm and all that earlier on in this thread, but it was way up there, so a repetition doesn’t hurt. Can’t even find it myself anymore. Plus yours is a little varied compared to mine. They are all part of the femijihadist power structure where allegiance to the dogma replaces competence. And gets you ahead in politics and public administration.

  383. @Celsius: yes she does! She ran up incredible taxi bills – like this Federley – and said she couldn’t take the commuter to the airport as she needed the time to work – that it was more peaceful in the taxi. That went down really well. (Taxis are very expensive in Sweden.)

    To everyone: I want to know – especially from Swedes familiar with the law – if it is possible for the Swedish media to legally be given copies of a förundersökningsprotokoll. This sounds very strange to me.

    To everyone: what do you think about the ‘authenticity’ of the Mail Online narrative? (We don’t need to rate their journalism. Haha.)

  384. I find currently six (6) instances in this comment thread of Julian Assange being referred to as a ‘pig’ yet I find no objection from the admin as happens when the term ‘feminazi’ is used.

  385. @ Rick. Thanks. I knew I did something on those clowns earlier.

    Regarding Bodström I have done some thinking regarding the spook angle in this case. I don’t believe any spooks initiated it, but they sure as hell use it when they get it for free. (We have a saying in Sweden; “Don’t look a given horse in the mouth.” Anything similar elswhere?)

    Now, to continue along those lines there has been a strange discussioin about the Bodströms moving to the US now, and how that would be compatible with being Minister of Justice in Sweden, if his party wins the election. And then it becomes totally clear to me! It is a superb logistical logic! Perfectly simple. Why would he stay in Sweden? In the US he will be closer to the people he works for! And after the FRA surveillance cables are plugged in, it will be possible for FRA to read the e-mails from his bosses, so clearly he needs to avoid that. Being in the States, he may even get to rub shoulders with them. In person!

    You think I am on to something here?!?

  386. ‘The circle is complete. First it was a prosecutor that ruled on a preliminary investigation, then another who ruled to shelve it, after having thoroughly reviewed the material, and now a third one who opens it again. You’ve got to wonder what a fourth prosecutor would say. And I have to wonder what they’re thinking outside the country when they watch this circus’, says Silbersky.

    Silbersky also reveals several foreign news sources including CNN have contacted him and asked him to explain what’s going on and how the Swedish legal system works.

    ‘Honestly I’m having difficulty explaining it’, says Silbersky. ‘The decision to reopen the case has been taken without interrogating my client. But he’s not been called for further questioning.’

    What Silbersky should do is appeal the decision of Ny.

  387. ‘I can understand that it looks messy when the prosecutors all arrive at different decisions’, says Ny.

    ‘We can corroborate that there was more that needed to be done but I don’t want to go into why. It’s difficult to explain why the one makes one judgement call and the other makes a different judgement call.’

    ‘It’s difficult to explain without going into the new information in the case. And I can’t reveal that information because of the rule of secrecy surrounding sex crimes.’

    ‘But the normal thing in cases like this is to interrogate all parties including the suspect.’

    ‘I can’t go into whether he will be arrested in the future.’

    ~2000 prosecutor decisions are appealed each year, less than 1% of all decisions. One in ten of the appeals ‘go through’.

    Reversing the decision of a prosecutor on duty is much more common.

    ‘We don’t have statistics on it but it’s not at all unusual. Prosecutor decisions are changed all the time what with new information being made available’, says Karin Rosander.

    SvD tried to reach Eve Finné.

  388. ‘It’s both the old material and the new material on which we’ve made our decision’, says Ny to DN.se. ‘I can’t comment on the details and what’s going to happen to ensure the quality of the work we’re doing now.’

    Expressen report that Julian Assange’s freedom of movement will soon be taken away.

    ‘I know what I’ve done in my life. Which is why I know these accusations are without foundation and disturbing’, says Assange.

    ‘I’m not afraid. This is an enormous waste of time and as far as I can see it’s an abuse of process. The motivations aren’t clear.’

    Assange was met by Expressen reporters Sofia Johansson and Magnus Hellberg. ‘It’s a circus’, Assange told them.

    ‘Yesterday was the first time anyone talked with me about this to any extent. And yesterday it wasn’t about the accusations they’re talking about today. And today we’ve understood the matter has been reopened for reasons that are unclear to me but which in no way can build on facts.’

    ‘Now we’ll wait to hear, yet again, to hear from the Swedish authorities about their desires to hear what evidence I have about these events.’

    ‘I’ve never been given the opportunity to give them the information I have about these events.’

    [Will post all links in bit.ly format later. So much to do so far today.]

  389. Wow, the comments here sure have degraded in quality. Now it’s just one big ‘feminazi’ conspiracy theory. I swear, the Swedish men on this site seem to fear that their dicks are about to be cut off. “Gender traitor”? Give me a break…

  390. http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7711303.ab

    AB met Assange at a restaurant in Stockholm this afternoon. It’s been several hours since he got word the case is reopened, something that made headlines all over the world.

    He looks tired. It’s obvious these eleven days have had their effect on him.

    According to what Aftonbladet know, the suspicion is that he took off a condom when he had sex with one of the women.

    What Assange is suspected of is guarded by the rule of secrecy.

    ‘I’ll say the same thing I’ve said all along. I didn’t do anything with those two women which hasn’t been completely voluntary on both sides.’

    ‘This is a circus. No one has asked me or my solicitor about my version. It was only on Monday I found out what the ‘ofredande’ was supposed to be about.’

    ‘I am very upset. And even worried about the Swedish legal system’s lack of respect for people’s integrity.’

    ‘Some of the questions were about intimate activities. Most of the interrogation was about me wanting guaranties that the details of the interrogation wouldn’t be leaked to the media. I told them how critical I was about how they initially leaked things.’

    ‘I asked them to look at my cellphone to see evidence that supported my version of the story but they weren’t interested.’

    Complete interview published tomorrow.

  391. PS. My wife has now reversed her own vote to return to Sweden for a visit in the next year. ‘They’re crazy there’, she says.

  392. http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/inget-forvanar-mig-langre-1.1163030

    A police complaint of false accusation was filed against the two women on 22 August. Eva Finné dismissed the complaint. DN.se received private correspondence from someone who thinks it’s remarkable Finné was allowed to make this decision.

    ‘Finné makes herself guilty of prejudice (jäv). She is prejudiced because a decision to begin a preliminary investigation about false accusations would have meant an admission by her office that mistakes have been made’, writes this person.

    ‘I think the prosecutor’s office in this situation should have remembered you don’t accuse Caesar’s wife and that one should have turned over the matter to another prosecutor’, comments Silbersky. ‘It would have looked better. But I don’t want to condemn them because I don’t know what the rules the game are.’

  393. Dreadful developments, and yes it does seem like a circus.

    I do not have time today to catch up on all the blog commentary today, so can someone please explain to me:

    Are people (ie blog and forum commentators etc) drawing a conclusion that those with a political grudge against wikileaks are now stepping in to use the scandal to their own ends? In other words, what seems to have begun as a misunderstanding (to put it mildly) between Assange and radical feminists, has now become geo-political?

    OR: is it simply the case that more radical feminists are asserting their position and re-opening the rape case?

    thanks, erik for the aktivarum posts; very helpful.

  394. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/02/world/europe/02wikileaks.html

    ‘According to accounts the women gave to police and friends, Swedish officials said, they had consensual sexual encounters with Mr Assange that became nonconsensual. One woman said that Mr Assange had ignored her appeals to stop after a condom broke. The other woman said that she and Mr Assange had begun a sexual encounter using a condom, but that Mr Assange did not comply with her appeals for him to stop when it was no longer in use.’

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2994566.htm

    ‘So the boring truth is that Assange didn’t come up against a CIA conspiracy, but the rather broad Swedish conception of what constitutes a sexual crime.’

    ‘Translation? Amateur hour at the prosecutor’s office.’

    ‘Google Translate is a helpful tool, though in the race to be first with the latest news of Assange, many bloggers have been far too trusting of its often really terrible results.’

    Haven’t seen this before. This is really sick.

    http://www.unt.se/inc/print/sexistiska-studentsanger-uppror-402697-Default.aspx

    Ardin’s comment – this does not represent Sweden thank goodness:

    ‘People want to maintain an unofficial tradition and think this is student material, and so these lyrics are spread further. It’s of course very negative if people continue to use them.’

    [Note: some of the most profiled matriarchies on the planet have bawdy songs that would make most people blush and probably make Ardin explode.]

    First comment on ABC AU thread really sums things up.
    ‘I cannot understand why so many people are prepared to back this creep, assange was a hacker, he admits this himself so next time you get a virus on your computer, have your personal information or business info hacked, get programs embedded into your pc that screw it up just think how great he is. How anyone that can cause mayhem with other people lives/computers is supported by those he was doing the damage to is beyond me, the man is and was a criminal, he deserves everything that happens to him.’ (seajae)

    With Einsteins like seajae roaming the planet freely it’s a wonder we’re in as good shape as we are.

    ‘Currently he has been given protective custody by the authority in Sweden.’ – Ture Sjolander (But where is the citation? More blabber and nonsense.)

    ExSwede writes something that rings very true:
    ‘What happened to Assange is a quite common occurrence in Sweden. There are many Swedish men sitting in jail because the victim was “believable” not because there were evidence. A sad situation indeed for a country that like to think of itself as progressive, equal and with an impeccable record of human rights.’

    Not only in jail – but without custody rights after divorces. The women just thrown out child molestation or their being raped themselves with no evidence and no plan to ever back up such claims – and the courts will rule in their favour.

    Men are 2nd class citizens in Sweden. This is something every Swedish man knows. But of course no one is allowed to talk about that.

  395. > Are people (ie blog and forum commentators etc) drawing a conclusion that those with a political grudge against wikileaks are now stepping in to use the scandal to their own ends?

    That’s a bit of a stretch. Four women are involved in processing accusations against Julian Assange which have been brought by two other women. Sweden is indeed weird and the prosecutor’s office doesn’t seem to have a single male prosecutor.

    Misandry book: better URLs.

    ‘a worldview based on ideological feminism which presents all issues from the point of view of women and in the process explicitly or implicitly attacks men as a class’

    See also:

    ‘What makes Spreading Misandry a useful book is that it puts a small spoke in the works of the large and noisy machinery of moral indignation that feminism has succeeded in constructing in academe and the media over the last 20 years.’

    By the author of ‘Who Stole Feminism':

    By Kathleen Parker:

    Obviously this issue is way out there and has been discussed for some time. ‘Where there’s smoke there’s fire’, as the femi-jihadists like to say. What’s happened is that men typically don’t want to bother, don’t want to be seen as weak. And then a twisted form of feminism gains hold.

    Finally a quote from a rabid feminist on the ABC AU thread – this is staggering beause it mixes so much hatred, prejudice, and total IT incompetence in the same paragraph.

    ‘Wikileaks is a CIA trap in itself. All of that nonsense about Assange having to run around in hiding is rubbish. Any person who operates or uploads content to a website can easily be traced, anywhere in the world. His joy-tripping around the globe is more of a publicity stunt than a bid to avoid spies.’

    There must be something else to do tonight. I suggest we all try to find it. ;)

  396. Best comment on the ABC AU thread:

    ‘If [Assange] doesn’t tell the password for his computer to anyone, even then, it can be traced?’
    – Lehan Ramsay

  397. The Independent:

    http://bit.ly/afBYJY

    Comment by ‘Bill':
    ‘It’s almost funny – though actually very sad – that this guy is being assumed to be innocent merely because he’s a hero of the left, and not because that is every accused man’s right.’

    ‘In almost any other circumstance, a man accused of rape would be presumed guilty and the Harmonesque wimmin would be braying and cackling for his balls to be cut off. Remember, in wimmin’s-land, it is not guilt or innocence that counts, but the conviction statistics.’

  398. ashasekh:

    “Are people (ie blog and forum commentators etc) drawing a conclusion that those with a political grudge against wikileaks are now stepping in to use the scandal to their own ends? In other words, what seems to have begun as a misunderstanding (to put it mildly) between Assange and radical feminists, has now become geo-political? OR: is it simply the case that more radical feminists are asserting their position and re-opening the rape case?”

    Both!

    The reason it happened was clearly because of the crazy feminists (tokfeminister) in sweden having more and more power in police and prosecutors office (there is a network “Hilda” existing solely to give women top jobs in the justice system – cause of shared genitalia.)

    However as the Assange-supporters made this an excuse to attack CIA and Pentagon with claims of conspiracy, The Assange-haters made this an excuse to attack Assange and Wikileaks based on them being “low on morals” In the beginning these two were the only alternatives.

    I think we Aktivarum, were the first in Sweden to point out with crazy feminists neither would be necessary to create this situation. Culture marxist, radical feminists would do the job just fine. And very early we got the indications at least one of the two women had those kind of political views.

    “thanks, erik for the aktivarum posts; very helpful.”

    Glad you like it, feel free to spread the link over the web. We want as many as possible to read the summary. Also, a bit special was that we actually managed to get the text to Mr Assange himself. We do know he have read it.

  399. Today the five female prosecutors/spokespersons are putting up a united front: ‘no comments’. Curious they didn’t implement this from the beginning.

    The only proven crime so far is that of Maria Kjellstrand who was compelled by law and the duties of her office to respond to the Expressen inquiry with ‘no comments’ at the outset.

    This transgression must not go unpunished.

  400. Henrik Alexandersson (works with PP in Brussels)

    http://bit.ly/bTKrCu

    ‘It’s important Assange doesn’t leave the country. If they were to issue an international arrest order, the US might jump in and try to grab him first.’

    Also an implication in the comments that this can be an attempt to whitewash Kjellstrand. There’s also an implication that they’re trying to further stretch the definition of ‘rape’ and decided in their wisdom to use this as a pilot case.

    My comment: if this isn’t enough, they may try to hang Assange out to merely hide their own incompetence.

  401. @ erik thx for a lot of useful input via aktivarium. I followed your discussion with pugget there and am leaning towards puggets side. I can understand that what you expressed about the situation in sweden is something that sets people on edge, and rightly so.

    That does however not mean that the sociological data pugget refered to is wrong. Plz consider the possibility that those radical feminists as you call them might to some part also distort the validity of the sources they use to back their claims. Just because some fanatics quote something doesn’t automatically mean what they choose to quote is bullshit.

    I don’t have the time to direct you to the right links, but claiming rape is NOT about power is ignoring one dimension of the subject at hand, and an important one. also, more rapes are commited than being reported not being true I find hard to believe … your theory on shame towards other woman only I find highly questionable too.

    You mentioned some of the stuff those ultra feminists do, like calling and accusing rape when there is none, is a slap into the face of real rape victims … some of the stuff you wrote there might work the same way. Overall I rly liked your article there, but trying to keep things a bit more sperate might not be such a bad idea. as you said this is about how swedish feminism relates to JA’s situation, this is not about rape in general and explaining the phenomenon. that might need a wee bit more than a blog entry. this is likewise not about left wing ideology or political position in general. so forgive me, but condemning all that in one sentence just cause it’s something your radical feminists make use of is a bit shortsighted.

  402. Trying to find opinions on Swedish Google’s blog search. After this it’s into the cesspool of Flashback. ;)

    Svensson blog:

    http://bit.ly/92ZWoh

    ‘If any of this leads to formal charges, I’m convinced this will affect his application for residence/work permits.’

    Erik’s latest (is this already linked in?)

    http://bit.ly/9oQm6n

    ‘Something clearly is wrong with the swedish justice system.’

    Note Erik has rape victims in his own family. (Sorry dude – our best to them.) And he’s incensed that this ‘velour’ case is being given attention the real victims of real crimes never get. You can’t argue with that!

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7699790.ab (2010-08-31)
    This is where it gets really dicey and the femi-jihadists show their true colours. This link has perhaps been posted before but it’s important to point out what’s been written here.

    Had sex with the woman
    The woman has claimed Assange deliberately broke a condom when they had sex and according to Aftonbladet’s sources it’s this event behind the molestation complaint.

    To reiterate: none of this would at this point in time have been cause for extreme concern if Maria Kjellstrand had not broken the law in the first place.

  403. transient:

    “erik thx for a lot of useful input via aktivarium. I followed your discussion with pugget there and am leaning towards puggets side.”

    Pugget has given source for anything so thats not much of a “side” to take.

    “I can understand that what you expressed about the situation in sweden is something that sets people on edge, and rightly so.”

    This is not about Sweden. The radical feminist agenda was created at the Barnard Conference in USA, around 1982. This is the event that Ariel Levy talks about in her book “female chauvinist pigs” that divided feminism. We are a small country so the effects are getting visible faster. Thats all.

    “That does however not mean that the sociological data pugget refered to is wrong.”

    He did NOT refer to any specific data. He just did what sociologist normally do when they lie, he referred to “normal procedure” which is what the sociologists we had lecturing did too. Funny enough so did Rosander on Al-Jazeera. Her entire defense was based on “thats how we usually do things”

    “Plz consider the possibility that those radical feminists as you call them might to some part also distort the validity of the sources they use to back their claims.”

    Radical feminist is what they are, not just what I CALL them but what they actually ARE. In fact they used to be radical women and against video violence. They then started calling themselves feminists only when they would gain from it. Professor Christina Hoff Sommers makes this case clear in the book “Who stole feminism?”

    “Just because some fanatics quote something doesn’t automatically mean what they choose to quote is bullshit.”

    No, its the complete lack of objective evidence that makes it bullshit. I dont care how popular it is. Such a fallacy is called Argumentum ad populum.

    “I don’t have the time to direct you to the right links”

    You should not even need links, you should only need the ability to explain logically what evidence supports your case.

    “but claiming rape is NOT about power is ignoring one dimension of the subject at hand, and an important one.”

    No, but claiming rape is about power is ignoring a very important dimension of science, the part where you actually support claims with EVIDENCE.

    However propaganda-studies does teach us the value of letting your own media just repeat the same thing over and over again… Since Miss Steinem owned a magazine (Ms), why not use it? Said and done, she hired miss Rapestudy (Koss) and started swamp women with the new rape-ideology.

    “also, more rapes are commited than being reported not being true”

    Not all rapes committed are reported true, but its also true shitloads of the reported rapes are NOT rapes.

    A study by special agents at US Airforce 1992 concluded at least 60 percent of the accusations were pure bullshit- After doing the actual study they contacted the women and asked them WHY they had made false reports: Of the women who answered the result was:
    20% Revenge
    20% Compensate feelings of guilt or shame
    13% Thought she could be pregnant
    12% Conceal an affair
    Thought she might have caught a VD was 3%

    No surprise three of these “excuses” are present in the Assange case, Fear of pregnant, Fear of VD and Revenge…

    “I find hard to believe … your theory on shame towards other woman only I find highly questionable too.”

    But again no arguments or sources, you just assume I am wrong cause… well, the other is popular and repeated lots of times in media… But I did tell you, Professor Roy Baumeister actually have PROVEN women shame other women… Thats an actual scientific study.

    They tested two hypothesis on sexual repression, men shame women, women shame women. the evidence supports women shame women.

    “You mentioned some of the stuff those ultra feminists do, like calling and accusing rape when there is none, is a slap into the face of real rape victims …”

    More like kicking their face in and stepping on them when they are down.

    “some of the stuff you wrote there might work the same way. Overall I rly liked your article there, but trying to keep things a bit more sperate might not be such a bad idea.”

    Dunno…. I write good cause of logical skills and very good source material.

    “as you said this is about how swedish feminism relates to JA’s situation, this is not about rape in general and explaining the phenomenon.”

    Swedish feminism is about US rape-politics in general. They are just more obvious in a small country.

    “that might need a wee bit more than a blog entry. this is likewise not about left wing ideology or political position in general. so forgive me, but condemning all that in one sentence just cause it’s something your radical feminists make use of is a bit shortsighted.”

    Since when do I care about any political position? Radical feminism holds the extreme ends of both political positions. On the left the culture-critical manhaters citing Foucault, on the right the moralist sexhaters citing the bible.

    What they have in common is simple: they cant stand mainstream people and they both could not stand not having moral high ground actually having to ARGUE using evidence for their claims instead of “we are goodies”

    They both hate the concept of evidence.

  404. well ok, solid answer, thx :)

    so evidence, you might for one read up on some of the stuff Pierre Bourdieu wrote on Symbolic Violence, and try keeping that in mind when talking about power not being a factor. Imho power relations and their working in society are still rather under- than overestimated. I don’t take issue at all with you saying rape is not all about power. It is however usually some part of the mix.

    As for the shame aspect, I have to admit I have no empirical studies like you can offer. I do know though, from knowing more than one person that became a victim of rape that shame is not just aimed at other woman, but rather social surroundings at large. Whoever is the victim becomes stigmatized in a way too or at the very least feels like that. And that, likewise is the reason why I doubt the number of false accusations being higher than the number of not reported rape and abuse crimes. stuff like that comes with severe psychological trauma, which is the reason that many do not speak about it at all and hence do not report and press charges. likewise, the event might be so traumatic that on a subconcious level the victim might deny what happend to him or her. I totally agree with you though that it is totally perverse and distasteful move to turn that around into the argument of woman constantly being raped without even realizing it.

    as for political ideological stuff… i just was annoyed a bit by the way you used the label marxist in there. not that I am THAT left, but mark my words no matter what ideologies were built on his theories, the old chap had a couple of insights that will yet return to haunt our happy capitalist world :D … there came a lot of shit in the wake of Marx’ work, which by critical voices usually gets summarized under “marxist crap” label … that is just unnecesarily stigmatizing. so if you take offense at the way those fanatics use political or socilogical theory make it abit more to the point – you were sensible enough to make a clear distiction between feminism and radical ursurpers of the feminist movement so to speak … that might be a usefull approach on some other stuff too.

    oh and at one part you mentioned that an empirical study is worth more than listening to whatever one victim has to say (loosely paraphrasing here, sry) I find that just poorly worded – people who unlike our two accusers suffered for real might have a hard time reading that…

    that being said, this is prly going offtopic a bit here, sry, … I’l pass you some comment at the other place when I have the time in case you feel like getting into this.

    back to topic:

    could someone plz explain how much the public is entiteled to know on why the charges were taken up again? ok so now they say “no comment” …but for how long can they uphold that stance? what will the public be entitled to learn about the descissionmaking process of the various prosecutors according to swedish law?

  405. To whom it may concern:

    My name is Pussy Galore. I’m the former head of the aerial act known as Pussy Galore’s Flying Circus. I was in the employ of one Auric Goldfinger. Mr Goldfinger is not available anymore to substantiate my claims but I trust they will be taken seriously anyway.

    Approximately 46 years ago I was asked by Mr Goldfinger to fly a certain hostile passenger to Mr Goldfinger’s stud farm in the US. I later learned that this person was in the employ of Her Majesty’s Secret Service where he used the code name ‘007’ and had been granted a so-called ‘licence to kill’.

    The agent’s name was of course James Bond, today a household name around the world and a person held in universal high regard.

    The facts of the case are as follows.

    Mr Goldfinger noted that representatives of the US intelligence organisation CIA were lurking about his property with binoculars. Mr Goldfinger suspected they were curious as to Mr Bond’s presence and prepared to come to Mr Bond’s aid if they suspected he was being held against his will. Mr Goldfinger advised me to change more ‘appropriate’ attire and then show Mr Bond around the property to waylay the suspicions of Mr Bond’s colleagues in the CIA.

    Mr Bond and I proceeded to a barn on the property where Mr Bond made inappropriate and unsolicited advances. I immediately cautioned Mr Bond to stop, explaining that he was not my type. I didn’t think I needed to spell out that I was a lesbian as telling him my unwillingness to accede to his advances should have been enough.

    Mr Bond continued to molest me and time and again I responded by using my martial arts skills to thwart his advances. But Mr Bond finally got the better of me, positioned himself above me where I lay on the barn floor in the hay, forced his legs between mine, and proceeded to kiss me.

    People viewing the footage of this heinous attack by the pig James Bond may today think I finally relented, as I seemed to give into his kisses and kiss him back. But my position was such that I had already told Mr Bond ‘no’, he was clearly a man with a warped understanding of womanhood that didn’t know how to take ‘no’ for an answer, and as he was overpowering me, there was little I could to but give in.

    Mr Bond later reported that he was able to defeat the evil plans of my employer by appealing to my maternal instincts. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mr Bond raped me.

    I know it’s almost 50 years since that incident and I am aware of statutes of limitations but I also saw a documentary on television last night that stated unequivocally: ‘JAMES BOND WILL RETURN’. I want Mr Bond to know that when he returns, I shall be ready for him.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Pussy Galore, former aviator (retired)

    PS. I think perhaps I’ll move to Sweden and ask Mr Bond around for a cup of tea. What I’ve seen, I can convict a man of anything in that country.

  406. Does anyone know to what JA is referring in this interview with Expressen when he says, “Today I had a case filed against me in the United States in a wholly unrelated matter.”

    Have the details of the U.S. “case” been made public?

  407. bmull, it could be this nuisance lawsuit, which WL tweeted:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/wikileaks/wikileaks-boss-others-sued-world%E2%80%99s-looniest-inmate

    It is a nuisance lawsuit and it will be dismissed, but of course that takes time and money.

    Could I remind people here that there are many feminists in many countries who are supporters of Assange and WL, but who will begin to react against some of the more extreme anti-feminist rhetoric that sometimes appears here? Feminists aren’t irrationally partisan, and are perfectly capable of believing that a man like Assange could be stalked, as it appears to me he was.

    I’m not Swedish, so I’m interested to hear reasonable news about how things work there, but I do think that some of the anti-feminist rhetoric has been going over the top.

  408. ‘I’m not Swedish, so I’m interested to hear reasonable news about how things work there, but I do think that some of the anti-feminist rhetoric has been going over the top.’

    You said it yourself. You’re not Swedish. It’s really not appropriate in your position to judge anything without learning more about the facts of the case and the situation in general.

  409. ‘Could I remind people here that there are many feminists in many countries who are supporters of Assange and WL, but who will begin to react against some of the more extreme anti-feminist rhetoric that sometimes appears here?’

    Thanks but no. What you’re saying is that Sweden’s femi-jihadists can do anything they please but men must mind their manners.

    Here’s a suggestion: take an Air Canada to Stockholm, put yourself up at the Grand, then wander the streets and the clubs (especially on Södermalm) and meet a girl or two. See how things work for you.

    Until that time, you have no perception in the matter.

  410. And just to point out: Sweden’s never had ‘equality’ issues like other countries and cultures. Those supposed ‘disparities’ have never existed in the same proportions or in the same way.

    * The head of Sweden’s most powerful bank, part of the Wallenberg legacy, is a rather sexy woman and mother. Totally cool.

    * The head of the powerful Swedish shipping line Johnson is a powerful (and sexy) woman.

    * Sweden’s richest person used to be Märta Philipsson who ran the Mercedes dealerships.

    * Sweden had pretty sexy bus drivers back in the 1950s.

    You can’t equate Sweden with most any other country. And you can’t begin to appreciate the situation in Sweden today if you don’t understand the history and the background.

    The first question an intelligent outsider should ask given no more than the above is: what then are they fighting for?

    They already have a sophisticated state financed daycare system where it’s mostly girls taking care of other girl’s kids; they have benefits for mother leave and such you can only dream of: the mother of my children made enough money on those grants alone that she could have supported herself on her own for at least three years like that; and so forth.

    It’s really not at all uncommon for women to intentionally get pregnant by lying to their boyfriends about birth control, then living off the government for the rest of their lives. My best friend was victimised in this fashion – by a girl he told time and again to leave him alone. He’s not alive today as a direct result of what that ‘girl’ did to him.

    The women who do this are sometimes referred to as the ‘baby of the month club’.

    Almost all social offices in the country are run almost exclusively by women. You can pass any law you want (where 47% in the parliament are already women – what other country can boast that) but at the end of the day it’s the people at shop level who interpret (or ignore) the legislation.

    Ask yourself: what would have happened to Sweden’s prosecutor who divulged confidential information to a tabloid if he’d been a man?

    Think about it.

    The women are in control in Sweden. Nobody wants anything but equality. Neither my wife nor I would think of anything else. Most Swedish men are good around the house and yes know how to cook well. I love to cook.

    My father in law could literally not boil an egg or make a sandwich. No joke. That’s not the way things have been for quite some time.

    A friend of a friend came home with a wife from Thailand who wanted to reign in the kitchen and her husband and his friends had to teach her the error of her ways. Why? Because they found it affronting that they weren’t allowed to do the things they were used to doing for themselves.

    60% of all households in Stockholm proper are single residences. People living alone. Lots of girls and lots of boys. And most do their own cooking and are very good at it. As they are with the washing-up, the laundry, house cleaning, all the rest.

    One of my best friends is a sexy woman who drives a lorry. And so forth.

    You’re looking at Sweden through a straw. Don’t comment, judge, or condemn until you know more. Odds are your impression of what’s going in equates to Plato’s myth of the cave in turbo mode.

  411. @ Rick:

    Here’s a suggestion: take an Air Canada to Stockholm, put yourself up at the Grand, then wander the streets and the clubs (especially on Södermalm) and meet a girl or two. See how things work for you.

    Until that time, you have no perception in the matter.

    You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am a guy. Let me disabuse you of that notion. I’m a het feminist woman, and I can’t imagine why I’d be out “meeting a girl or two.” A girl? A girl?

    I have a very clear perception that you are not one of the serious contributors to this discussion, and you are furthermore just plain rude.

  412. I find inverting a situation very instructive on seeing if there is bigottry involved so think of this scenario instead.

    An attractive female activist with almost no money of her own travelled to foreign country while on the run from other governments, and stayed in the house of a male politician she didn’t know very well who promised he would not be using the flat while she was there. This man is essential to organising the woman’s conferences and providing contacts within the foreign country’s political and activist networks. That man then changed his mind about leaving her alone for the week in the 1 bedroom flat as he had promised and comes back to his flat as he has every legal right to do. All on the pretext of more work for “the cause”.

    They have dinner and he screws her.

    And the next day this well known activist was followed by another man to a conference. This man is engaged to be married to another and yet he still pursues the woman. He works his way into being invited to her luncheon and gets her attention by buying gifts useful for her work to which she is devoted. He chats her up and takes her to a movie where they got very amorous. She is charmed and wants to see her again and they swap phone numbers.

    She leaves for a party that the first man has organised for her. While there she texts the guy who just charmed her at lunch.

    She meets the second man and says she would like to see where he lives. She has no money so she’s dependent upon his good will to pay for transport there and back.

    She turns up but her behaviour is a bit nervy and not as amorous as expected. She’s a workaholic and continues to work on the train on the way to the second man’s home. The second suitor is not at all impressed with this. He thinks her attention should be on him.

    She says the night and he screws her. In the morning he buys them both breakfast and sends her on her way with a train ticket.

    He expects her to call him and she doesn’t. Angry he calls her work and somehow finds out that she had been living and sleeping with another man.

    What do they do? They trash her reputation to everyone they can. She’s a whore, a slut and look what she did to them! In fact she’s such a whore that when they fucked her without a condom she probably gave them diseases! Stop the presses! That bitch is spreading AIDS just like that German slut!

    Rape does not need physical violence, which is a point far too many people do not acknowledge. Coercion can be implied violence, blackmail, or simple abuse of power such as housing or employment. Gifts and meals are widely accepted as pressure to have sex. To be fair sometimes the perpetrator does not realise they are in a position of power over the other person. That does not mean the sex is concentual, it means that people need to be sensitive to power issues and to bloody well CHECK wiith their partner that they really do want to have sex. Afterall, what sort of person wants to have sex with somebody who does not really like them that much?

    Having said all of that, I look at what we know about JA’s activities with those women and I see the signs of power are in the _women’s_ actions and not his.

    The women bought him gifts, paid for transport, and provided housing and food. AA was an important contact for him in a foreign country that he is hoping to make a political refuge for himself.

    If JA was a woman who put herself into the same situations we would be talking about how stupid she was to walk into a situation of such vulnerability. People _never_ talk about how men should curtail their activities because it might be sexually dangerous, but as far as I can see, that’s what’s happened here.

    If you want to trash somebody’s reputation over sex, women are sluts and men are rapists.

  413. @Rick:

    Wow. You are a CREEPY little bully. Your continual bleating about misandry is disturbing, and not a little cringe-inducing. I seriously feel sorry for any of the women in your life.

    “Until that time, you have no perception in the matter.”

    Who are you to tell someone that they have no “perception” in any matter? And by the way, please look up the meaning of the word “perception.” Your word usage is off which just makes you sound like a patronizing jackass.

    Oh, another thing? Try to hide your gigantic hard-on for Julian Assange. Yes, we know he’s sexy as hell, but…really…it’s getting kind of embarrassing. And no, Julian Assange isn’t going to call you with an invitation to join the WikiLeaks team after he reads all your comments on this thread. Get over yourself.

    @admin:

    This WAS a great blog post and a great thread, and you actually sound like a decent human being. Too bad. Peace out.

  414. Anonymous: “This is just a case of harrassment and intimidation by the state. … Anybody who knows what it’s like to be targetted by a bureaucracy because they didn’t know or care about when to keep their mouth shut will be familiar with this.”

    Yes. And what are we going to do about it? Anyone who sits on their hands this time does not deserve freedom. Calling Anonymous. (The other one.) 4chan if we must, then everyone with brains, fire them up. Now.

    @Rick Understand, points taken, but what are you going to do about it? To the world, this is many states and the media working together to take away our freedom of speech. Not about Swedish feminism in the result, even if that’s where it started. If you think they are going to pass a new law, what are you going to do about it?

    Anyone who thinks this won’t hurt wikileaks, or you can just sit out and everything will be ok, is very very wrong.

  415. I read all the comments and this new investigation is quite depressing to say the least. I hope JA will keep up with his spirit. He can be emotionally drained as he has been traveling and doing seminars and that can be such a drain too.

    I hope CNN, NYT, and JA’s friends in the U.S will support him continuously. Let’s hope for the best that this new investigation will highlight why the women are after Assange.

    I have a hard time understanding the judicial decision making process in Sweden. After all the blame should fall on the women because they initiated the invitation. I think these women wanted money from Assange and they want bilk it by this investigation. Too bad, that the prosecutor or the judges are not checking why a socialist democratic christian movt. would target a man in the first place. There is an ulterior motive! Where is the womens’ moral standards?

    It is too dangerous if these women are behaving like nazis. There needs to be a balance. I think all they might do is extradite JA from Sweden. I hope all the men would come forward and petition against such brutality from the behavior of women.

    It is pure vendetta from these women! I hope JA wins this case. My fingers crossed! We need to show mercy so God can show mercy unto us! Swedes, wake up!

  416. Josie, I understand how you feel but mostly 4chan is like Wikileaks’ embarrassing antisocial step brother. Any “help” from them is going to cut both ways. Can you imagine the political mileage the extremist women (I don’t want to call them feminists) can milk from screenshots off /b/?

  417. I am struck by JA’s assertion that he’s been somehow set up – (by the C.I.A./Pentagon… by rabid feministas… by any of the myriad of “bastards” he’s made enemies out of in the past year… take your pick.) The problem with his claim is that he has no evidence to back up his suspicions… at least none that he’s presented publicly.

    Moreover, any organization or government clever enough to fit him up for a rape charge is bound to have covered their tracks pretty well. In other words, short of someone coming forward and confessing the plot, he’s not likely to find evidence enough to prove to the world he’s been had.

    Thus it seems that the founder and main spokesman for an organization that serves as a clearing house for leaked government information now finds, that in order to prove he’s been framed, he must rely on… leaked government information.

    Now that’s irony.

  418. Anon. Aus.
    I know, and of course I didn’t mean the site, the /b/tards are just the members of anonymous that most people are familiar with. What I mean to say is, this is too big for one person and there is no one in authority who is going to or can help. If we don’t stand together we’ll all fall apart and any other cliche you can think of. And obviously I just mean for the people here who support wikileaks, I realize not all do.

    Gaah, bad day, and probably many worse to come. Do we care, or don’t we?

  419. anon,

    I can understand your frustration. The last resort would be for JA to leave Sweden as they have shred his image to pieces.
    This smear is orchestrated either to harm JA or in the end they might reverse the laws of Sweden that may support the men in times of such allegations. Be optimistic and attract the law of reaction!

    I would like to check do you his spokesperson from Iceland, Bragita Jon Dotir? Why is she not being his spokesperson with the judicial system?

    Can someone answer this for me? I was just thinking about her because she had appeared on the tv sometime ago.

    Thanks!

  420. skdadl:

    “Could I remind people here that there are many feminists in many countries who are supporters of Assange and WL, but who will begin to react against some of the more extreme anti-feminist rhetoric that sometimes appears here?”

    Actually, as observed by professor Christina Hoff Sommers, By Ariel Levy and several other high profile female feminists REAL feminism doesnt support entitlement-feminism. REAL Feminists want equal rights, that goes completely against the crowd wanting SPECIAL RIGHTS for women.

    “Feminists aren’t irrationally partisan, and are perfectly capable of believing that a man like Assange could be stalked, as it appears to me he was.”

    Appears? If Assange had been a female celebrity we wouldnt even have this discussion. Its pure sexism.

    “I’m not Swedish, so I’m interested to hear reasonable news about how things work there, but I do think that some of the anti-feminist rhetoric has been going over the top.”

    Since you are not swedish and I am, maybe your idea of what normal rhetoric should be misses the reality of feminist studies in Sweden having courses like “critical white male studies” and nobody saying a word against it?

    You simpkly seem to have no clue what you are up against. You are just basing your claims on pure theory. What thing SHOULD be like…. well guess what? Reality wins over theory!

  421. Anonymous Australian:

    “Rape does not need physical violence, which is a point far too many people do not acknowledge.”

    You are wrong! Rape absolutely needs physical violence OR threat of physical violence or threat of other criminal acts, OR the woman being completely helpless (drugged) or the woman being a child (under 15)

    Read the law!

    Otherwise its not a rape. Rape means forced sex, for example lying to a woman making her believe you are a rock star to get her to bed is not rape. Regardless how pressured she feels by peers in that situation.

    Its still her free choice.

    “Coercion can be implied violence”

    Threat of violence or other criminal acts. In itself a crime since you by law are not allowed to do illegal threats to people.

    “blackmail”

    Also in itself a crime.

    “or simple abuse of power such as housing or employment.”

    Then its not rape. Rape means FORCED sex, not pressured, overwhelmed or any other bullshit taught at women studies 101

    “Gifts and meals are widely accepted as pressure to have sex.”

    Thats bullshit! No girl in the entire counry of Sweden does not know how to get meals and gifts from guys she doesnt have sex with. No woman believe in that crap.

    * In fact my pal payed my meal recently, he did not want to pressure me into sex.
    * Also “widely accepted” is a useless argument, a fallacy called argumentum ad populum. More people believing bullshit does not make bullshit less bullshit.

    And even if you had been correct, pressuring people to have sex is off course not rape or even a crime.

    “To be fair sometimes the perpetrator does not realise they are in a position of power over the other person.”

    And often, neither does the other person. How lucky they both are to have people like YOU telling what in theory is power and what is not – but of course what that really means is giving YOU the power to decide reality itself.

    Cause now you have surprise victims and surprise perps! And you decide who is who – with no objektive verifiable evidence whatsoever.

    “That does not mean the sex is concentual, it means that people need to be sensitive to power issues and to bloody well CHECK wiith their partner that they really do want to have sex.”

    Bullshit! Power issues are one of the main reasons for attraction. Had Assange not been a celebrity, chances of Sofia chasing him was zero.

    “Afterall, what sort of person wants to have sex with somebody who does not really like them that much?”

    According to the actual science (David Buss, Cindy Meston) LOTS and LOTS of people, men and women are attracted sexually to people they dont really like. Thats NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR!

    “Having said all of that, I look at what we know about JA’s activities with those women and I see the signs of power are in the _women’s_ hands and not his.”

    Signs of power… bullshit!

    “The women bought him gifts, paid for transport, and provided housing and food.”

    And so did my pals earlier, are you saying they are gay and secretly want to pressure me into sex?

    “AA was an important contact for him in a foreign country that he is hoping to make a political refuge for himself. (I hope he changes his mind.)”

    AA and JA had normal consensual sex, the reason they ended up in bed was that because of AA arriving earlier they lived and worked cloes to eachother. Under those conditions attraction is common (ask actors and doctors)

    According to a woman I spoke to AA only went bananas after Sofia called her and tried to find her sexpartner.

    “If JA was a woman who put herself into the same situations we would be talking about how stupid she was to walk into a situation of such vulnerability.”

    No! If JA was a woman, security guards would have prevented the stalker Sofia from getting close to the female celeb JA. In newspaper Aftonbladet JA would tell how creepy the guy was.

    “People _never_ talk about how men should curtail their activities because it might be sexually dangerous, but as far as I can see, that’s what’s happened here. The women took advantage of him just like we would expect men would do with a woman in the same situation.”

    The women did not take advantage of him. The women however felt used when SW looking for JA called AA and asked where she could find her “love”

    If anything, the two women take advantage of stupid, gullible and naive men and woman in the justice system and political body.

    “If you want to trash somebody’s reputation over sex, women are sluts and men are rapists.

    The problem off course is, men dont give a shit about a persons reputation. Women USED TO when they had to have a good reputation to get a supporting husband.

    But when women are not even looking for such a husband who give a rats ass about reputation anyway?

  422. The funny thing about this case is: Nobody seem to think it weird the person supposedly raped is not the celeb but the person stalking the celeb.

    Logical! You do all you can to get into somebody elses bed, then when you are there you are the one forced into it?

    Makes sense?

  423. Rick, the fact you selected an Air Force study to prove your point is amazing. The Air Force has repeatedly been found by the GOA (a general fact checking and accountability office in the U.S. federal government, non-partisan and still respected) and the justice department to have downplayed and swept rape accusations under the rug. They’ve had a male dominated culture for years, and have actively resisted female recruits. The use of sexual harassment and rape to that cause, while not directed by the military brass, continues to be tolerated. I grew up near to the Air Force academy and have a friend who left after being raped. The Air Force refused to press charges as the man did not ejaculate. The Air Force would be the last institution on earth who’s statistics I would trust on the subject of rape.

    It’s your concept on evidence that needs a good look at. I am in no way a radical feminist, but you offer an interesting look at the ideas that they are reacting against.

    For those interested on a classic book in the field, I’d recommend “Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender,” by A. Groth. While nearly 30 years old, it’s still a core intro book in the area of sexual violence.

    I’m done responding to the people in this forum who seem to believe the charge of rape is usually false (i.e., Rick’s Air Force statistics). Study after study on rape reporting has concluded that the false report rate is somewhere between 3-10%. I’m not going to argue with people who dismiss almost every study because they have some wild notion of a feminazi conspiracy to make men second class citizen. Maybe the situation in Sweden has gone too far – I can certainly believe that some want to push the definition of rape beyond a reasonable point. But that doesn’t overturn decades of sociological study.

    (Note, the fact that the charge is normally *not* false does not implicate JA’s guilt! Far from it. This case smells very fishy, and we’d all be best off waiting for more information before rushing to judgment.)

  424. Sorry Rick, I was confusing you with Erik. Thanks dyslexia!

    I think Erik’s most recent response speaks for itself.

  425. Been reading this excellent blog now for days, following everyone’s analysis and reasoning.. and I am still uncomfortable and unable to accept the overall appraisal of “radical feminism” being used as the excuse for what is happening here. This reminds me of the book “The World According To Garp”. Which was satirical fiction.

    A good dose of reality is needed to be implanted here and if it doesn’t come out of Sweden, it sure will from the rest of the world if this farce continues for very much longer.

    The heinous act of unconsentual rape can not reasonably be diluted to include coercion, seduction & cheese!
    I can not possibly see how this act of taking someone against their will, can even be associated with the use of condoms either. In any culture no matter how far off track they have become.

    Reality: Two relatively young women pursue an association with JW. These two women are also politically savvy enough to be involved in a conference where he was speaking. Obviously, these two women have the intelligence to know that Wikileaks is groundbreaking, to bring new transparency to curtail the abuse of power across the world. They are also obviously aware the extreme situation JW was in having just released a bulk of material that had the pentagon up in arms at him.

    They pursued him, that is obvious and uncontested. They pursued him for what purpose? If they are like most normal 20 & 30 year old women when pursuing a sexy hero like JW they first want intimacy and to favoured exclusively by him. To many relatively young women who are single and narcissistic, as these two women obviously are, it wouldn’t matter if he was married or not. OK this is obvious reality to me.

    What I can not fathom or accept however, is how can either one of these two women be so selfishly motivated that they would stop the world on its heels of a new revolution to impugn the most vulnerable in this organisation because they may have been exposed to an STD? Does this make sense? There is absolutely no proportionality here whatsoever in any sane reasoning, call it “radical feminism” or the need to grow up.

    That is why I can not accept this at face value. It is so extremely disproportionate and twisted that there must have been some underlying agenda in place to begin with. Even these two narcissistic women with sexual ambitions and unrealistic expections resulting from their short fling with JW know that you do not go to the police about an STD issue over a man who has just leaked 150k documents against the pentagons wishes… nobody is that stupid. So what’s up?

  426. tomi …I agree with this feeling “off” … but the logic you use there is a bit “off” too: because JA is in the position he is in, whatever those woman’s interests are doesn’t count?

    According to that logic, GW Bush should be criticized and sued for a lot of shit he did, but hey, since he is an ex-president and a poor brain-addled fellow ex-addict anyways we can’t rly bother him with it. Or …. that guy who used to be a nazi killing people …now he’s 80 and rly gonna die soon, so why still get him into a courtroom? …ok granted I’m coming up with stupid examples here… my point being … relativist logic just doesn’t fly … you can’t go and say …oh if it was somebody else I wouldn’t mind them suing rape over a comdom …BUT since its julian and wiki is so important they just will have to live with it. that’s just BS, sry.

    That doesn’t mean I don’t find it ridicoulous on what grounds these rape charges are being built …but you cannot go and dismiss them simply BECAUSE ITS ABOUT WIKI … that logic is doing a disservice to all supporters of wikileaks

  427. I’m sorry, tg, but what you have said doesn’t make any sense to me. And there is nothing “far off” in what I have said by any stretch of reasoning. Where does the proportionality come in?

    In the real world, and I hate to even imagine that could mean outside of Sweden… women do not go to the police because they may have contacted an STD or broken a condom or even in the heat of consentual sex gave up on using one. They go to a clinic if they are that paranoid about it.

    Women who feel jilted because their fling did not turn into an exclusive relationship do not send the police in on a man who has just leaked 150k documents against the pentagon’s wishes.

  428. LMAO.
    I think I’ve set of somebody’s guilty conscience here.

    Oh well I’m done with this thread now. But I just want to say that if the attitudes of Erik and Rick are typical of Swedish men (and I doubt that) then it’s no wonder the women are angry.

  429. transient guest:

    “so evidence, you might for one read up on some of the stuff Pierre Bourdieu wrote on Symbolic Violence, and try keeping that in mind when talking about power not being a factor.”

    The point is not whether power is a factor at all. The point is whether that should be a LEGAL factor. Also Bordieus work could as well be used to show female power through sexual selection. This I know for a fact since sociologist Henry Laasanen (Finland) has already done so.

    “Imho power relations and their working in society are still rather under- than overestimated. I don’t take issue at all with you saying rape is not all about power. It is however usually some part of the mix.”

    Rape is not about power, any power attributed to rape can scientifically be attributed to sexual relations in general. Something fairly obvious in radical feminism where the feminists themselves do not agree where to draw the line between “goodie sex” and “opression sex” – the trend is that lesbian feminists think any sex involving a man is oppressive and sisters should only have sex with sisters

    And thats ACADEMIC works.

    Any person discussing sex where power is not a factor at all is referring to a fantasy island and not the real world. Women themselves choose power – and the powerful women do it in fact more often.

    In fact, a woman like Anna A is very likely to wanna sleep with a celebrity, political leader or something like that
    But she is very unlikely to have a boyfriend who is plumber, carpenter or mechanic. This is a fact, you people just dont have the guts to say it cause anytime this IS told in media the social/women response would be “you are not getting laid”

    ———————————————————————
    So you have a deep fear of admitting the scientific facts that women choose powerful men.
    ———————————————————————

    “As for the shame aspect, I have to admit I have no empirical studies like you can offer. I do know though, from knowing more than one person that became a victim of rape that shame is not just aimed at other woman, but rather social surroundings at large.”

    And what do you think a bullshit expression like “social surroundings” mean? Who do you think control your social surroundings?

    “Whoever is the victim becomes stigmatized in a way too or at the very least feels like that.”

    Well thats a fairly big difference aint it? Being a victim or feeling like one.

    “And that, likewise is the reason why I doubt the number of false accusations being higher than the number of not reported rape and abuse crimes.”

    The reason we know it is a high number of unfounded accusations is because the police themselves constantly (while for political reasons not allowed to TALK about it) SHOW IT by dropping them at once!

    “stuff like that comes with severe psychological trauma”

    Stuff like what? Unwanted sexual intercourse? In that case according to the Muehlenhard studyt 46% of the women have such a trauma.

    It would then be more normal with such a trauma than being left-handed.

    On pure logic its obvious such a claim is untrue!

    “which is the reason that many do not speak about it at all and hence do not report and press charges.”

    Since the reasons itself logically is a false claim, it cant motivate anything. All you really prove is rape-experts can say anything and never need evidence.

    Its the ultimate SCAM knowledge based on complete lack of results or evidence. All they need are huge numbers of claimed rapes.

    “likewise, the event might be so traumatic that on a subconcious level the victim might deny what happend to him or her.”

    MIGHTH BE? Thats more or less you confessing these are in no way certain data, people just dont dare use logics, demand evidence or otherwise control for truth.

    “I totally agree with you though that it is totally perverse and distasteful move to turn that around into the argument of woman constantly being raped without even realizing it.”

    Thats logical, since they need more raped women than actually can be proven raped as excuse for the amounts of money they want EVEN if every claim is seen as a real rape. They have to make up shit to be able to present even women who claim they are not raped as “Victims of theory-rape”

    “as for political ideological stuff… i just was annoyed a bit by the way you used the label marxist in there.”

    Untrue, I said CULTURAL marxist. Thats not the same thing.

    “not that I am THAT left, but mark my words no matter what ideologies were built on his theories, the old chap had a couple of insights that will yet return to haunt our happy capitalist world :D”

    The problem with Marx is that Marx never understood human nature. He wanted to believe in the incredibly bullshit theory of tabula raza.

    ” … there came a lot of shit in the wake of Marx’ work, which by critical voices usually gets summarized under “marxist crap” label”

    Yes, and cultural marxism is the most powerful crap we got in the wake of marxism. Since workers no longer were victims, now the minoritoies would be made victims of any group with more power… first the upperclass… but no…. attacking rich people was a bad move, so the PC-crowd instead joined the upper class in a furious attack on the mainstream middle class. (the workers Marx wanted to enpower) and started to attack anything NORMAL.

    Since power is normal in sex, of course they started attacking normal sex as well.

    ” … that is just unnecesarily stigmatizing. so if you take offense at the way those fanatics use political or socilogical theory make it abit more to the point – you were sensible enough to make a clear distiction between feminism and radical ursurpers of the feminist movement so to speak … that might be a usefull approach on some other stuff too.”

    Feminist movement is today 2010 controlled by those radical ursurpers, off course what the ursurpers wanted (and got) was money and power.

    “oh and at one part you mentioned that an empirical study is worth more than listening to whatever one victim has to say (loosely paraphrasing here, sry) I find that just poorly worded – people who unlike our two accusers suffered for real might have a hard time reading that…”

    I am sure they do, the problem is they are wrong! A helicopter landing on my foot would not make me an expert helicopter pilot.

    When people are upset you agree on anything to make them feel better… Thats called empathy

    The problem arrives when idiots starts to believe what people say during therapy can be seen as scientific truth

    Shrink: You can do anything

    Victim: He said I can do anything – make it happen!

  430. @ Erik:

    For those who don’t know, Christina Hoff Sommers is a right-wing American ideologue, and I know of no feminist of any kind who takes her writing seriously or even considers her a feminist. Ariel Levy is a completely different kind of writer, a writer for the New Yorker who does pop sociological profiles of younger women.

    I don’t need instruction in Feminism 101, and I think I’ll stay away from this discussion until admin returns.

  431. Anonymous Australian:

    “Oh well I’m done with this thread now. But I just want to say that if the attitudes of Erik and Rick are typical of Swedish men (and I doubt that) then it’s no wonder the women are angry.”

    Women angry? WOW you are really stupid

    I have women around me constantly, they sometimes are angry, sometimes happy, sometimes wants distance and sometimes so horny they cant wait to get inside to get their clothes off.

    The simple fact is… in a society based on equality… their emotions is not my responsibility at all.

    You sir sounds like a man during 1910 arguing against women voting rights.

    Angry?

    So what?

    This is about them pressing charges for a serious violent crime. Not about them getting angry

    If you cant see the difference Id say you and Mike Nifong probably would get along fine.

  432. skdadl:

    “For those who don’t know, Christina Hoff Sommers is a right-wing American ideologue”

    So what? Thats not even a scientific argument. Every person in academia have a political opinion. Christina Hoff Sommers is a Philosophy professor of ethics.

    “and I know of no feminist of any kind who takes her writing seriously or even considers her a feminist.”

    She doesnt need their permission either, they do not control reality Their opinions doesnt matter, facts matter. The error you make is called: Argumentum ad populum

    “Ariel Levy is a completely different kind of writer, a writer for the New Yorker who does pop sociological profiles of younger women.”

    Also irrelevant, facts and content are what matters. Why you waste time gossiping over the person – is anyones guess but irrelevant for the subject. As Assange and Wikileaks so brilliantly tells us.. Analysing the material is the important part – sources are not.

    “I don’t need instruction in Feminism 101, and I think I’ll stay away from this discussion until admin returns.”

    Come back when you have scientifcally sound arguments. A person voting a different party than you do is not a real argument.

  433. Pugget:

    ”As for there being no evidence that rape is about power, I refer you to the seminal work in the field: ”Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender,” A. Groth”

    Well thanks for the source but science today is less political and more objective than it was in the years following the Vietnam War and Groth made those claims 1979 when people more or less though Communism resulted in freedom. The rape studies I refer to was made during the 90s after evolutionary psychology and sociobiology broke the ”no genetics-rule” They could not possibly have been included in the 1979 book.

    ”As for your numbers about ”less fertile-appering” women being raped less, yes, older women are less victimized.”

    When the difference is 1000s of percent, we need better explanations than ”victim of opportunity”

    ”The majority of rapes take place between acquaintances, which naturally directs them toward age similar cohorts.”

    The problem with that claim is: What is the definition of ”acquaintances”? Such a term can include virtually anybody in todays modern society, classmates, co-workers, patients, etc it could mean anything. Also while its very true the women are often young thats not equally true for the men committing the rapes. The ”feminist champion” police chief Goran Lindberg was in his 60s the girls were in their teens.

    ”Since the majority of rapes are committed by sexually active men of a sexual active age, the age of the victims falls into a similar range.”

    Since the invention of viagra, men can be sexually active much longer than theories from the 70s would assume.

    ”Note that the ever popular media stories about older men hunter younger women on college campuses do not make up a very large portion of actual rape cases – just those that make it to the headlines.”

    The majority of actual rape cases cant be used for anything since they either a) dont find the suspect, b) cant prove the suspect is the perp, or c) lack basis for claiming a rape was even committed in the first place. You need to base claims on people in jail for rape. Where it can be claimed proven he did commit the crime rape.

    ”As for the racial element in rape prosecutions, yes, minorities are often scapegoated for rapes they did not commit.”

    Now you need to make up your mind, do the police need to be able to convict men for rape on the womens stories only or not? It doesnt matter shit whether the man is black or white since every black man is also as a man.

    ”In my own community it’s not Blacks but Hispanics who bare the brunt of this. Yet, even after normalization, white men are the most prevalent offender in my area. Clearly there is some racism at work.”

    Are you talking about being suspect of rape or convicted of rape based on womens stories? Cause you need to understand that a hispanic man is also always a man.

    ”Curiously, you do contradict yourself in your comment. You say: ”The ability to have sex is the aim. Not the sex itself.””

    No I do not contradict myself. Its a basic fact of evolutionary psychology: Women mainly look for a number of men to choose resources, men mainly look for a number of women to choose genetics from. (David Buss et.al) Of course both parties are certain THEY have the moral right to have many while the partner should only have ONE.

    ”I would completely agree with this statement. What you’ve expressed here is a demonstration of power over another.”

    That would not mean your theory would be rape is about power, that would mean your theory is sex is about power

    ”It’s not about the sex. It’s about the ability to have sex whether you want it or not.”

    Thats scientifically true of sex in general.
    Feminist reseacher Charlene Muehlenhard actually checked this for a fact. In a study published 1988 in ”journal of sex research” she asked college-age women whether they only had sex they wanted

    The women replied
    ——————————-
    98% had experienced unwanted sexual actions
    46% had experienced unwanted sexual intercourse

    Questions for you:
    1) Are those women rape victims according to you?
    2) Are those women victims of any other crime according to you?

    ”Let’s take a clear question and see if we can at last agree what would constitute sexual assault (not rape, but assault).”

    Ok

    ”Would taking off a condom in the middle of sex and then continuing to have sex despite a woman’s protests constitute a crime?”

    I dont know if it would be a crime (Fraudelent behavior?) but it sure as heck would not be rape unless she tried to get off him and he physically prevented her beyond what could be considered ”normal playful manner”

    ”If not, why not?”

    Because then every guy getting a child because the woman lied about being on the pill would be a victim of rape and women in 1000s would be in prison for lying about having protected sex.

  434. ok thank you erik, that was …enlightening 0.o

    I’ll stop discussing this with ya now, no point. have fun living in your little world. don’t be surprised if it keeps on clashing with reality though.

  435. tomi:

    “What I can not fathom or accept however, is how can either one of these two women be so selfishly motivated that they would stop the world on its heels of a new revolution to impugn the most vulnerable in this organisation because they may have been exposed to an STD?”

    You are mistaken, the women initally did not want a rape-circus. The police at Klara Närpolis are the selfish ones really.

    “Does this make sense? There is absolutely no proportionality here whatsoever in any sane reasoning, call it “radical feminism” or the need to grow up.”

    Big difference! Racical feminism enforces women acting like children as a human right to be protected.

    “That is why I can not accept this at face value. It is so extremely disproportionate and twisted that there must have been some underlying agenda in place to begin with.”

    No, the underlying agenda here is the one we have been aware off for a long period of time in Sweden. Basically crazy-feminism with lots of money and power infiltrating police, schools and other “strategic positions” for gender struggle.

    “Even these two narcissistic women with sexual ambitions and unrealistic expections resulting from their short fling with JW know that you do not go to the police about an STD issue over a man who has just leaked 150k documents against the pentagons wishes… nobody is that stupid. So what’s up?”

    Yes, they are that ego and stupid! Thats the reality of genusvetenskap.

    Go google translate and enjoy.

    http://vrproj.vr.se/detail.asp?arendeid=72976

  436. Transient guest:

    “ok thank you erik, that was …enlightening 0.o”

    What was? Do specify, right now I dont beliveve a word you are saying.

    “I’ll stop discussing this with ya now, no point. have fun living in your little world. don’t be surprised if it keeps on clashing with reality though.”

    So instead of using actual arguments, you belittle me personally? Thats mature, wow! Acting like a 12 year old is so impressive. Should I perhaps worship your ability to again and again confuse what is popular and what is true?

  437. @ Erik,
    I translated that page, read it and I can’t find anything even remotely related to this subject in that material. Sorry.

    But I’m afraid you don’t get my points. Esp where you said:

    “You are mistaken, the women initally did not want a rape-circus. The police at Klara Närpolis are the selfish ones really.”

    My points are:

    These women are not stupid, obviously.

    These women know what is at stake is far more serious and deadly than any imagined STD that JW could harbor..

    These women know the timing is critical to the evolution of something much bigger than their biological urges…

    These women know that you don’t walk into a police station and claim a condom broke with someone who is wanted by the pentagon for the unprecidented leaking of war documents..

    These women should be grown up enough to know that if they wanted a serious relationship with any man you don’t sleep with him right away to begin with as well. And you don’t cry to the police about needing to force a man wanted by the pentagon to take an std test.. putting him in a pandoras box that will never be closed because of the hooks that are available within….

    They are not so young and naive that they don’t know all of the above.

  438. from eric : “A study by special agents at US Airforce 1992 concluded at least 60 percent of the accusations were pure bullshit- After doing the actual study they contacted the women and asked them WHY they had made false reports: Of the women who answered the result was:
    20% Revenge
    20% Compensate feelings of guilt or shame
    13% Thought she could be pregnant
    12% Conceal an affair
    Thought she might have caught a VD was 3%”
    I would like to know where you find those “facts”, seems to me very dangerous to write this kind of thing.
    I think this man (eric) has a real problem with womens, not only with “radical feminist” ones, and not only in the assange case. And he wants very very well advertise for his site !

  439. tomi:

    The point was that the gender-theory-crowd see that kind of bullshit as valid science.

    Regarding the women
    Yes everything you say about them is valid
    The problem is
    Due to feminist education
    They dont care

    They dont care about anything but themselves, their opinions and their feelings.
    I have discussed online with Anna Ardin and so have several friends. She is PC in every kind possible.
    PC makes any person – regardless intelligence – act like an idiot.

  440. It is a case of female jealousy and revenge. That is the cause, spiced up with radical feminism and political ambition in a political climate where the ruling dogma is radical feminism (it is taught at university, universally, not just for gender study majors).

    The weapon; legal charges, because it is so easy in Sweden, due to the power of said dogma.

    That sums it up, really.

    (Erik. Mitt vanskapliga rad ar att tagga ner ett par snapp. Du borjar bli lite flasig.)

  441. @ Erik.. this is the first time I’ve heard anyone say they have had direct communications with Anna Ardin. Is this in fact correct?

    You have had direct communication with her since this episode?

  442. dougui:

    “I would like to know where you find those “facts”

    I find them in something called “science” the absurd idea that the validity of your claims would be based on tested facts and not moral values or political considerations.

    Google “USAF Charles McDowell”

    “seems to me very dangerous to write this kind of thing.”

    Seems kinda funny thats what the Pentagon told Wikileaks. You would actually try the same argument although wikileaks debunked it completely?

    As I explained already
    Police drops most rape investigations today cause

    a) Cant find suspect
    b) Cant prove suspect was the actual perp
    c) Cant even find basis for the claim rape was committed

    “I think this man (eric) has a real problem with womens, not only with “radical feminist” ones, and not only in the assange case. And he wants very very well advertise for his site !”

    I dont have problems with women, you however sir have a serious problem with truth, facts and science. Your moral attack on me is very similar to a cleric attacking people for heresy

    You cant prove a single thing, yet people are not allowed to say against you anyway.

  443. tomi:

    “Is this in fact correct? You have had direct communication with her since this episode?”

    No, I knew about her before this episode!
    But I only spoke briefly with her regarding the “student lyrics at Uppsala University she couldnt stand”

  444. Anonymous,

    the assange interview is too long to paste here. for google translation, either use the google chrome browser (download from their site),

    OR go to their translate site:

    http://translate.google.com/

    and enter the URL of the page you wish to translate.

  445. Never knew men in Sweden could be so scary. So much for one of Europe’s enlightened social democracies.

  446. Isn’t it interesting how Julian Assange himself–the man with the most at stake in this scenario–is actually behaving with grace and dignity when it comes to making comments? Here’s his direct quote when asked about his relationship with the women: “My cultural values are to protect people’s private lives and to never criticize women. I think that is correct and I will continue to do that in this case.”

  447. tomi,

    You broke down well each element. I too believe that there was an agenda perpetrated from someone high who knew these women would carry out the scheme against Assange. They deliberately arranged it by a staged apparatus using the Christian Socialistic Democratic Left seminar to gain foothold so JA could address their concerns. I hope someone or JA contacts the leader of the Christian SDL movement and informs them what these women were up to. They should make a new enquiry on this individual.

    What is intriguing here is that women were chasing him and had an ulterior motive to coerce, seduce, and have sex in return for their hospitality. If they were decent and wanted to protect themselves from “molestation” or “rape” or whatever you call it, they would not place themselves in a vulnerable situation alone with a man and in this case, JA. It is natural when two people of opposite sex are alone in the room, the attraction to have a consensual sex is strong.
    I too believe that in this case JA was raped and exploited.

    To add, JA should have asked these women first if they are infected with STD. It is the womens’ fault for not warning JA first if they did and not in the middle of the act.

    Another confusing part is that both women knew each other. They are playing the game that both were astonished by JA’s betrayal. In fact, they knew beforehand, the game plan. I think these women totally made fool out of JA. I think these women are street bullies!

    To cover up their stunt acts, they had to report it to the Police Station or Expressen or whoever that was involved to create further havoc for JA.

    So, whatever happened to cray fish party, the cheese intake, park romance, her buying gifts and ticket, and taking him finally to the apartment? Did this generosity fall apart that quickly to end up in the courts against JA? This is ridiculous and inhumane! I think these women are trouble makers and have absolutely no conscience of accountability that they were the stalkers and are in the wrong.

    A man is a man; his instincts are different from the women. Women are passive and men are built by nature to be the aggressive because they are the one’s that take the lead in a natural way.

  448. Erik,

    “The women bought him gifts, paid for transport, and provided housing and food.”

    “And so did my pals earlier, are you saying they are gay and secretly want to pressure me into sex?”

    I think these girls are gay or bisexual. A/c to the above reports, one of them has lesbian disco clubs.

  449. @Siboni:

    ‘A man is a man; his instincts are different from the women. Women are passive and men are built by nature to be the aggressive’

    You’re making assumptions again. For that is *not* the way it works in Sweden.

  450. Pugget,

    I did a study – profiling of violence on men and women in depth. The sex offenders does not have to be serial killers, but they can change partners and rape the opposite party without calling it a rape. Some call it “emotional rape” others experience “physical rape.”

    Some are social offenders and other are non social offenders.

    There are various typology of rapists such as anger retaliation rapist, sadistic rapist, power assertive, and some are “Power Reassurance Rapist. ”

    To define briefly, the power reassurance rapist type, the primary aim is sexual behavior, but she/he needs an assurance to elevate his/her own self-status. For this person the sex act validates her position of importance. She perceives as a loser and by controlling another human being she hopes to make herself believe that she is important. if only temporarily. For this reason, she uses only enough force to control her victim.

    This kind of rapist is concerned with the physical welfare of his victim and will not usually harm him intentionally. She operates under the assumption that her victim actually enjoys the rape. She may coerce his victim to exchange conversation of called “dirty talk” and the encounter begins.

    These power reassurance rapist may contact their victim to inquire about their health, as though they are concerned.
    (Holmes & Holmes).

  451. Rick:

    Sweden has abnormal moral ethics. Therefore, I cannot help resolve their twisted degenerated psychological issues.

    Sorry!

  452. Rick,

    if we change the course of nature which was designed by the law of nature for a man to be the dominant ( I don’t mean in a harsh tone), then there is an imbalance in the structural roles. As a result, we have what is called the extremism in Sweden!

    Is Sweden a democratic nation? If so, then the laws should be applicable to both sexes equally. Equality is the key to resolve any problem.

  453. transient guest,

    I am sure JA has travelled before to Sweden and may not have had this crisis. Why after Wikileaks became evident, that we are hearing this move from two females? It is absurd!
    Something does not add up. I have my own findings, but will keep it to the end. I just want to see who, why, and what started this whole fiasco.

  454. I apologize for writing in segments, because each segment covers a certain topic.

    tomi writes to Erik:

    tomi

    @ Erik.. this is the first time I’ve heard anyone say they have had direct communications with Anna Ardin. Is this in fact correct?

    You have had direct communication with her since this episode?

    @Erik, If you know AA, then would you have by any chance (I am just asking) have redirected these comments to them? If they read this, then they are definitely going to be ultra Feminazis! I mean challenge the pro JA crowd to get even! I have seen the scorn of women, they are venom of a snake!

    Erik, are you a female from their gang? It sounds like you are talking from both sides of your mouth. Your foot is on shaky ground, lol.

  455. My finishing thoughts on this for now is what if Anna Ardin had sex with her drug supplier who had just sold her a bag of weed.
    Would she then go to the police and report a broken condum and insist he get tested?

    (radical feminism my blooming a**… intellectual masterbation is more like it)

  456. Feminists in heat, with their biological clocks ticking ?
      
    1 in 20 is psychopath/sociopath (women included)
      
    Reminds me of a case where a feminist picked up a man from a beer parlor — took him to her apartment, got him more drunk, then had sex — charged him with rape — Case was eventually dismissed

  457. Siboni:

    “I think these girls are gay or bisexual. A/c to the above reports, one of them has lesbian disco clubs.”

    Thats a politically correct career IMAGE thing in Sweden! Leftwing politicians specially often play themselves as representatives of weak poor minority groups they do not belong in themselves! You can even find pictures of Social democrat leader Mona Sahlin in a Veil although she is not a muslim.
    And you find lots and lots of heterosexual PC persons around the HBT crowd supporting whatever they do. And also, the big “womens issues” activist Police chief Goran Lindberg was privately a rapist, sadist and a buyer of sexual services as presented on our blog. This is the madness of PC, lots of people representing things they personally are not.

    They just wanna control others. not follow the same rules themselves. Hypocrites is the correct definition.

    <<<In particular Lindberg was a staunch enemy of sexism in the police force. He argued with colleagues, made speeches and built up a reputation as a tireless proponent of women’s rights.<<<

    ""‘A man is a man; his instincts are different from the women. Women are passive and men are built by nature to be the aggressive’""

    "You’re making assumptions again. For that is *not* the way it works in Sweden."

    Actually! Its exactly the way it normally works in sweden, its just that PC is a theory that makes people believe if only they would use different words reality would change. For that reason most swedes are trained to again and again repeat things that are generally not true.

    <<<The theory behind the PC view of the world is that if you change the language, you change what the language describes, because perception alters reality: non-sexist expressions, for example, help to foster non-sexist thoughts.<<<

    "if we change the course of nature which was designed by the law of nature for a man to be the dominant ( I don’t mean in a harsh tone), then there is an imbalance in the structural roles. As a result, we have what is called the extremism in Sweden!"

    Thats a correlation, you cant claim a causality with just a corralation. Its true we have extremism, its true their is human nature with more testosterone in men than women. You cant make causal claim with just that though.

    "Is Sweden a democratic nation? If so, then the laws should be applicable to both sexes equally. Equality is the key to resolve any problem."

    Yes laws should be equal
    There are two definitions of equality unfortunately
    1. Equality of opportunity
    2. Equality of result

    The supporters of 2. always end up supporting unequal rules and laws.

    The equality law of sweden is not equal, it more or less says that unequality is allowed anyhwere there is lack of women.

    "@Erik, If you know AA, then would you have by any chance (I am just asking) have redirected these comments to them?"

    I dont know AA personally, I have discussed with her once or twice in my life… however you can easily contact her at the Rebella blog or the Ardin blog. You can even try her phone number that is easlily accessible online… although most likely she stopped using it when a million reporters from all over the world started calling.

    "If they read this, then they are definitely going to be ultra Feminazis! I mean challenge the pro JA crowd to get even! I have seen the scorn of women, they are venom of a snake!"

    I dont even know what you mean with that.

    "Erik, are you a female from their gang? It sounds like you are talking from both sides of your mouth. Your foot is on shaky ground, lol."

    I have no idea what you talk about, I am not a female and I do not support their PC craziness.

    "My finishing thoughts on this for now is what if Anna Ardin had sex with her drug supplier who had just sold her a bag of weed. Would she then go to the police and report a broken condum and insist he get tested?"

    Buying drugs is illegal here, her political PC career would be gone if she confessed to such acts.

    How about people talking about Sweden actuallty learn somethings about Sweden?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/01/goran-lindberg-sweden-crime-palme

  458. tomi,

    I agree with you both. There are times women in one of the rich muslim nation have abducted men at nights and raped them in their apartments and left them next morning on the drive way. It is shocking news, but nobody discusses about it in the press. The men got sucked into their wealth and were naive. They thought that these women would never harm them. By the way they did.

    Erik,

    Your quote, “The theory behind the PC view of the world is that if you change the language, you change what the language describes, because perception alters reality: non-sexist expressions, for example, help to foster non-sexist thoughts.<<<

    "if we change the course of nature which was designed by the law of nature for a man to be the dominant ( I don’t mean in a harsh tone), then there is an imbalance in the structural roles. As a result, we have what is called the extremism in Sweden!"

    Thats a correlation, you cant claim a causality with just a corralation. Its true we have extremism, its true their is human nature with more testosterone in men than women. You cant make causal claim with just that though."

    There are certain social norms and the general perception abides by this moral code and perceives right from wrong. I am not sure how spiritual you are. But I believe that God did create man and woman. He said that man should be the head of the household, labor (therefore, he has more strength in his body and a logical mind), and the woman should be his help-mate. If this family structure is broken down and women behave like men taking the role of lesbianism, then the perception is distorted. It is not how the laws were created. A woman cannot have sex with another woman, period or a man with a man.
    I have found from research study that these individuals are extremely depressed despite having such a relationship and come for therapy. Many have changed their life and started normal lifestyle only to find happiness. At least, some are trying.

    Why the distortion of perception is another story. There are lot of factors involved. Societal norms evolves and people go with the popular trend without understanding the abc of the spiritual side.

    What I am saying is if these women read the "How to Smear the Hero," they might challenge the supporters of JA just to get back at us. Women can behave like snakes if they want to challenge.

    The reason I am saying this because their behavior reflects of someone having a jekyl and hyde syndrome. They were friends and each one had their share of relationship and then turn around and create such a drama is absurd.

    I have read reports from other blogs that say that this rape allegations makes no sense. They think that these women could be used by the intelligence to smear on JA and this flip flop accusations are simply a diversion.

    There are others that believe may be it was staged so JA can show the world that his leaking the Pentagon papers was not an insider job. These accusations are created to show the world that he was indeed targeted by the opposition group.

  459. @ Eric

    “Buying drugs is illegal here, her political PC career would be gone if she confessed to such acts.”

    That is exactly my point. Exactly why I posted that senerio.

    She would know what would happen to her by going to the police over a broken condum with her drug supplier.. And she didn’t know what would happen to Julian Assange by doing the same??

    Please…..

  460. To dissect this event on another angle:

    This is hypothetical based on how others see and I would like to focus on other possibilities.

    Either way, I would like to wait and see, if he has used this event for his own agenda. These women might be up to some mischief and did not handle the allegations well.

    Sooner or later, people will begin to suspect JA to have orchestrated these allegations. He has weighed the benefit over cost and does not really care about the smear. The smear may actually help him in the long run and that is exactly how be believes and these women may have helped him to fulfill that goal. Otherwise, no women in the right mind will behave as they did after having an affair and good time with JA. Or may be he did not have any affair. Anything is possible with this triangulated affair.

    Something does not add up!

    Good night!

  461. tomi,

    Can you elaborate this. I did not fully understand your implications. Thanks!

    @ Eric

    “Buying drugs is illegal here, her political PC career would be gone if she confessed to such acts.”

    That is exactly my point. Exactly why I posted that senerio.

    She would know what would happen to her by going to the police over a broken condum with her drug supplier.. And she didn’t know what would happen to Julian Assange by doing the same??

    Please…..

  462. Why I say the above is because after knowing that JA would be the target of gossip due to the Pentagon leak, he would surely have maintained his safety of conduct. It is critical at this point in his life and he cannot afford such drastic gossips. This would mar his image internationally. The timing of his association with these women is a question mark.

    Or he did not really care for what he believes in and for his image otherwise he would be cautious!

  463. @ Siboni

    There may be an underlying level of perversity indemic in the political system of Sweden. No more so than any other country and probably less than many though. So what?

    That it has taken on the profile of “sexual equality” I won’t argue or dispute. Again, so what? What else is new?

    But this is not an excuse or an intellectual excercise for debate in what happened to JW. This is my point.

    From reading all the above posts from everyone, one could come away with believing that Anna A and her side-kick Pinkie were brainwashed into believing that the right thing to do would be to naively go to the police over a broken condum about a man who just leaked 150 war documents against the Pentagons will…..

    Yet, it is predictive that she would not be so “brain washed” when it comes to actually putting herself in jeopardy by doing the same action she did to JW if he had been her drug supplier…

    Now that we have established that dichotomy, I hope we can stop using “radical feminism” as the excuse here and look instead at deeper implications. Because it sure is not just a brainwashed society that you can blame here…

  464. One meta-moral of this debacle is: never allow yourself to become a public figure, especially not one trying to promote justice. The media and the public at large will not rest until your character is shred into a thousand pieces, never to be put back together. Julian will never be able to recover from this, even if he’s exonerated.

    A pox on everyone’s house for this farce. I’m so disgusted.

  465. @Chris,

    I might agree with most of what you feel, except I think he will recover from this; and the irony might be, that the plan of this set-up might be leaked.

    But it’s another lesson for you men, to keep your sausages in the wrapper, if you’re fighting against the Mafia! Because there are no rules or conventions of war for protecting the ‘Have a Lots’ against the ‘Have Nothings!’

  466. This is a conspiracy between the Pentagon and the Swedish Social Deomocrat Party to have Julian Assange arrested and extradited to the USA.

  467. tomi,

    Your quote:

    @ Siboni

    There may be an underlying level of perversity indemic in the political system of Sweden. No more so than any other country and probably less than many though. So what?

    That it has taken on the profile of “sexual equality” I won’t argue or dispute. Again, so what? What else is new?

    But this is not an excuse or an intellectual excercise for debate in what happened to JW. This is my point.

    From reading all the above posts from everyone, one could come away with believing that Anna A and her side-kick Pinkie were brainwashed into believing that the right thing to do would be to naively go to the police over a broken condum about a man who just leaked 150 war documents against the Pentagons will…..

    Yet, it is predictive that she would not be so “brain washed” when it comes to actually putting herself in jeopardy by doing the same action she did to JW if he had been her drug supplier…

    Now that we have established that dichotomy, I hope we can stop using “radical feminism” as the excuse here and look instead at deeper implications. Because it sure is not just a brainwashed society that you can blame here…”

    I agree that in other countries and as well as the U.S has the underlying level of perversity, but we are discussing this issue is because of the way the two women, the press, and the prosecutors handled this case. It is absurd.
    It is politically motivated!

    Moreover, JA became an international figure overnight and the expectation was great to further the cause. I believe the news of such an allegation might have caused legit interest from the people of Britain, U.S, India, and Europe.
    The further the case lingers, the more people are going to be interested how the outcome will be resolved. People have their own speculations of what really triggered the accusations and where it is leading to.

    Here, in the U.S, the consensus believe that Wikileaks might allow for the govt. to ban the Constitutional rights in the pretext of safety for our military and that the nation is at war. I can understand that. We do not want the freedom of speech to be an hindrance to our individual rights of life, liberty, and property. We do not want another entity to be used to obstruct our freedoms based on the Amendment to the Constitution. We have to weight the cost over Wikileak. The cost here is losing our individual rights. I am aware change of course is a sacrifice and it takes a lot of courage and perseverance to attain the outcome.

    I wish JA would be cautious in the future. We do not want to undermine JA’s abilities and real goals for inventing Wikileaks. That said, I do not like to see the U.S civilians being duped in the end. I wish JA the best to resolve this issue successfully! I do not wish to see Sweden poking its political nose in the affairs of U.S. by using Assange as their hostage! This is anathema!

  468. Franko,

    The new subtlety of Condom = holding JA as a hostage.

    They ran out of excuses and now they have to use some loophole that tarnishes JA’s image. Either it it bribery or it is a deliberate act for some insidious purposes to be met.

    Internationally Sweden has lost its image in the matters of judicial due process of law.

  469. I dont understand whats the problem above
    People still dont get it, still wanna believe in CIA/Pentagon/USA conspiracies wow!
    You simply do not get it

    What happened to Assange happens to other people on regular basis in Sweden
    Nothing new about it!
    It has happened many times.

    The drugdealer argument is stupid
    The reason the girl would not press charges against a drugdealer is because that would mean she was a criminal who went to the police and confessed that!

    The reason she would go to police over assange is
    Having sex with him is not criminal
    She can confess doing that to police
    And then police can punish Assange for the crime of “not treating her like she wanna be treated”

    For you the special thing is that it was Assange getting treated this way What you fail to understand
    Is that Assange to them is just representative of “MEN”

    To them its no difference whatsoever
    What he has done to USA is completely irrelevant
    Its not stupidity, the women are not stupid

    They simply do not care!

  470. Franko:

    What do you mean by these women leading heterosexual men to drink and suicide? I can understand that they may make them drink to seduce, but why the suicidal part?

    I have heard that Sweden has a high rate of Suicides. Is that correct?

    Yes, JA should find a good woman. I have heard from reports that he was anxious during his first divorce because of the custody of his son and the court case lingering which can be stressful. I hope he will not breakdown again due to this nonsensical allegations leading to this case. I hope he will remain strong. Some men and women are extremely sensitive and cannot handle the emotional stress. He cannot go through another one.

    Erik:

    If what you are saying is true, then I think women in Sweden can be callous and lack conscience! My special prayers for Swedish men and women that God will convict their conscience and brighten their lives to see the truth!

  471. Siboni, the myth that Sweden has a particularly high suicide rate is one that I always hear from Americans in particular. I don’t know where it came from. I personally never found any reason to believe that is was true. Anyway, your question made me take a quick look at statistics at Wikipedia (which you could also have done). I found proof for what has been my own personal myth or preconception. Japan, Korea, and former Soviet republics have the highest rates. I thought so, now I know.

    And what does it have to do with smearing a hero?

    This debate has been reduced to rantings… sorry… Let’s hope there are some new facts to discuss soon, otherwise it will continue to be an obsession for a small group of people and not very interesting.

  472. Siboni:

    “If what you are saying is true, then I think women in Sweden can be callous and lack conscience!”

    In Sweden?
    Women in any country can do that
    The difference in Sweden is in the reception of the state

    In Sweden the dominant idea (which originated in other countries) is that since women have been “opressed” they must now be given time and space to find their “own” way.

    Problem is off course
    Women have no own way, they adapt in the ways needed to make men do the work needed.

    There is off course no limit to emotional needs, the answer to the question “when is it enough?” is never!
    Good luck fulfilling that

  473. To: Siboni — Re: “why the suicidal part?”
    Self destruction by alcohol or otherwise,
    as a form of attempting to conform to criticism.
    Was pointed out to me by an expert on lesbians.

  474. Franko:

    “Do not care about the well being of Julian Assange”

    Off course not! He dissappointed them.

    “Do not care about the war killings”

    Yes off course they do, if you show them an enemy (hopefully an evil big corporation) they will protest like crazy. However they do not understand for a second the connection between wikileaks and less war killings. Thats too large a picture for self obsessed people like them.

    They react on the helicopter video, and Ardin as an animal righter most likely went bananas when she watched the yugoslavian girl throwing puppies into a river. BUT they are activists, not nerds, they dont get wikileaks at all.

    “Egotistically want to criticize and dominate”

    Egoism? Yes!

    “Is this Anna Ardin?”

    I dont know, probably, otherwise this link should help

    http://www.google.se/images?hl=sv&source=imghp&q=anna+ardin&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

  475. While their lawyer is scheming for legal action,
    The Grrrls are are avoiding the public eye.
    Why is Julian not getting do not comment advice?
      
    As a public health matter, test all participants,
    And proceed, or not, based on the findings.
    If disease was transmitted, from whom to whom?

  476. @ Eric, I’ve recently read somewhere that AA’s side-kick “Pinky”, is considered the darkhorse of this duo and coerced this little scam to bag JW.

    It would make sense that one of them or even both together, are operatives, even from different bases. When compared to your theory which is that these two women are that shallow and narcisstic that they would distroy the figurehead of a journalistic revolution because of a torn condom and a triangulated affair.

    I’m assuming you are not a woman. I think if you were a woman you would not be so ready to accept such a trite explaination.

    Need I explain? That fundemental passions are linked in a womans brain to the deeper aspects of a man’s identity and what he brings from the world and to the world.

    Therefore, I contend yet again, that there is more here than shallow, selfish and contemptable women who would sacrafice a figurehead of a major journalistic revolution because of a failed one night (or several) stands and a condum.

    I know that a man.. might find this hard to grasp…..

  477. DN.se came out with a new article yesterday, the purpose (effect) of which is to scare whistleblowers to not turn to WikiLeaks. It’s a long article but it boils down to hyperbole and rather rude rhetoric. My advice in situations like this is 1) separate the facts from the truth – very carefully; and 2) follow the money.

    DN.se is owned by the powerful Bonnier concern. Bonnier have conducted a propaganda campaign against the Swedish Pirate Party from the get-go.

    It’s OK to not like something. But it’s not OK to deliberately twist your so-called ‘news coverage’ and fudge the facts. DN more and more resemble a Fox/Rupert media organisation.

    http://bit.ly/aum81m

  478. celsius: We have to compare the population of Sweden against other countries and do the stats. I found that Sweden has the highest suicidal rate among European countries – 18.0 percent in 2006 for every 100,000 population. I don’t consider Russia to be a European country; may be they call it the eastern bloc.

    There is a stats here:

    Lithuania’s rates are:
    75.6 / 100,000 for men
    16.1 / 100,000 for women

    Sweden has far lower values:
    19.7 / 100,000 for men
    8.0 / 100,000 for women

    The US rates are:
    17.6 / 100,000 for men
    4.1 / 100,000 for women

    The rates in Lithuania can be explained by unemployment, poverty and heavy drinking in the Russian speaking minority (google).

    However, this discussion should not divert to this.

  479. Franko

    To: Erik — “Its not stupidity, the women are not stupid .. They simply do not care!”

    Do not care about the well being of Julian Assange
    Do not care about the war killings
    Egotistically want to criticize and dominate

    Is this Anna Ardin? — http://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/images/news_images/260/274368_366_250.jpg

    Is it the one with the black jacket? They look like Portugese or French? There are too many AA’s in the one that Erik presented. I saw one Ana Ardin with black dress like an Amish type. I am not sure which one?

    I don’t believe that women would go to such an extent to destroy JA, but someone was behind with this fiasco.

  480. To tomi — “there is more here than shallow,
    selfish and contemptible women”
      
    5% of the population are psychopaths/sociopaths causing endless problems. Only a few become serial killers. — Anna Ardin’s pattern of serial accusation is there.

    Yes, there is the lesbian/feminist background,
    but the sociopaths’ effects on society is the theme.

  481. Franko

    To: Siboni — Re: “why the suicidal part?”
    Self destruction by alcohol or otherwise,
    as a form of attempting to conform to criticism.
    Was pointed out to me by an expert on lesbians.

    I did a study on the psychological dilemmas of the gay culture and found that they are extremely angry people and jealous of their partners. Many in the US has killed them brutally. They are on medications and are extremely depressed.

    I hope we are not diverting to another issue while we have to focus on JA. Let’s wait to see the outcome from the judicial angle.

    The STD does not show immediate results unless a person has it for sometime. I hope these women are not trying to put the blame on JA and exploit him further. This is getting dangerous!

  482. @exile:

    cryptome has been posting stuff from this supposed “wikileaks insider” for some time now. Jacob Appelbaum has refuted what s/he has said in the past, I have no reason not to think that this rubbish is thoroughly refutable as well. I have a really hard time taking someone who talks about Julian’s “Austin Powers lifestyle” at all seriously.

  483. Yes, John Young at Cryptome has made clear pretty much this exact same poor opinion Julian Assange for a couple of years as far as I can tell — though he has gotten quite a bit of “good publicity” in the last 6 months in particular.

    I wondered very early on if this might be a psych-op directed at Assange and Wikileaks — rather than a smear — and I found myself wondering this again today as a second week of one step forward, one step back concludes and “news” here consists of vague reports of dissention in the ranks at Wikileaks.

    A prominent WikiLeaks organizer, Birgitta Jonsdottir, a parliamentarian in Iceland, tells The Daily Beast that she has encouraged Assange to step aside as WikiLeaks’ public spokesman and give up his other management responsibilities, at least until after the criminal investigation is over.

    From Gawker

    But then she said something elsewhere about a Wikileaks summit meeting in October — which would be, by all estimates I’ve seen well AFTER the release of the remaining Afghan Log Threat Assessments which require someone to do the initial and followup press/public relations.

    I gather Assange and lawyer have been given no idea when they might be summoned nor have travel restrictions been imposed. It’s just — as we say — hanging.

    I am baffled both by the leisurely pace of all this, all this “investigation” of very private events. I am gob-smacked at the prospect that there may be consideration that an accusation of “rape” can be made based on, what I can only imagine to be some sort “fraudulently obtained consent” charge, — the fraud having been discovered after the “consensual” act “magically” nullifying/revoking the original consent ? Would that be hours, days, months or years? The mind reels.

    Men and women have been arguing and negotiating about condoms probably for over a century now — I still cannot conceive of making a police complaint.

    I have to wonder what outcome — other than this rather embarrassing, rather distasteful, enlessly prolonged mishegas (yiddish — craziness) — they hoped for. Jail time? Oh please. A black mark on his permanent record. Creating dissention within Wikileaks perhaps.

    Although I wondered early on if these “legal matters” might present some overwhelming distraction to the threat assessment release, I now think the distraction has become the “new normal.”

    I think Wikileaks is charting new territory — I try my best not to second guess their decision-making processes. I just with them well and courage and solidarity.

  484. Ooops — I forgot to thank you all and Admin (Nicholas John Mead, I presume?) — I’ve been reading along faithfully, almost posted several times but didn’t. I really appreciate being able to ignore most of all that other and sundry junk … Thanks again.

  485. I cannot stick the Julian Assange saga onto lesbian
    feminism — unless I use sociopath as the glue.
       
    For most people, emotions are a feedback of their actions. Those without conscience caused the trouble.
       
    Corbett Report has good background on psychopaths — Then there is Alex Jones infiltrating the Bohemian Club.
       
    Jesus Christ was crucified because he
    overturned the tables of the psychopathic bankers.

  486. The Cryptome anonymous writer has cleared JA’s name temporarily, but is anxious about the funds not being dispersed to Wikileaks rightfully. I hope JA does the right thing in supporting the cause of Wikileak by transparency in the accounting of the donations. The editor always should remain a bit humble (sorry, JA) in order to win the subordinates. A good boss always listens and is flexible to the needs of his employees. A generous heart wins the support of even his enemy!

    Here we do not have for once “sex and rape problem,” but money issue. Wow, this can be resolved, if JA can shift a bit from his tight position.

    The characterization of Austin Powers is funny, because I always associated the evil to act similar to Dr. Claw and Inspector, Gadget!

    If JA does distribute the funds for the good cause as Crymptome has complained I shall not send my financial support for JA or Wikileak. This is bribe to do the right thing! Sorry!

  487. Franko,

    I have not been a keen digger of the Scandinavians, but since I am blogging here for the sake of being an internet activist in releasing the shackles of JA and I would definitely do it for others (as I have always done so at the expense of being love/hated by others which I don’t really care. I always knew that people hate one’s guts but then deep within they have the greatest respect for that person).

    I just checked some videos on youtube about Sweden. I think it is beautiful nature wise , but quite shocked by too many female feminazis creating their own culture. At least I have an overview about the Swedish Government.

  488. “female feminazis” do not understand that beyond
    the tipping point of no return, instinct and reflexes
    take over, a Man becomes a sex (not love) machine
      
    When good jokes and cartoons emerge,
    the public is ready to move on.

  489. “I think AJ is too loud as compared to JA.”
    A good interview would be Julian Assange on Alex Jones
     
    I would like to see WikiLeaks, not just leak,
    but also do documentary in collaboration with others?

  490. Thanks all for your comments. I’ve been offline for a few days but all is back to normal now. I’ll respond to some of the comments left since this one on 30th August.

    @Kailey, Sorry I must have missed the smiley :) Thanks for the comments. I think there are plenty of forums of debate out there on the net about issues raised by WikiLeaks although maybe a forum dedicated to WikiLeaks issues could be a good idea? I can´t help you on specifically Canadian issues though. Try to keep the debate on here related to Assange though please and not Canada.

    @Siboni, Sorry if I misquoted you – it’s hard to keep up with this conversation as so many comments have flooded in and I’m not spending 100% of my time moderating or replying unfortunately plus I’ve been offline for a few days. Your original post starting “Congratulations. I think you’re the only person who has looked at who the man really is…” got held in moderation automatically by the system but its online now. BTW, I’m not trying to smear anyone – I agree with exile and ashasekh that “admin and many of the contributors are trying to look at the real evidence objectively.” There’s enough smearing and confusion going on in this case without us adding to it! I’ve removed the link on Alex Jones too because it has nothing to do with this case.

    @Oh I’ve Given Up Sorry but I’ve removed that anti-WikiLeaks site link you posted (plus related comments) because it has nothing to do with this “rape” case. There’s bound to be a lot of people capitalizing on this and trying to smear WikiLeaks so the site doesn’t surprise me.

    @Rickard, You make probably one of the most sane and logical comment of this thread in your summary of what happened. It looks like a tale of jilted lovers and revenge pure and simple. Whether powerful interests are now trying to pervert and manipulate the case is another matter. I also agree that this is looking like turning into a debate over what is the official definition of rape – it could get widened in Sweden if Assange was charged.

    @Rick, Sorry must have misread that Kjellstrand’s husband was the head of the justice department – thanks for picking up on it. Thanks vincible 1 for clearing it up.

    @Erik, I also noticed that the Swedish press have tended to take this on-going Assange saga of their front pages at least at various points. Not sure whether this is intentional or just editorial policy. Maybe they’re providing some cover while they “sort it out” behind the scenes?

    @Rick, The only reason I haven’t objected to Assange being called a “pig” is a) I’ve been offline unfortunately while traveling and b) “pig” doesn’t have the same connotations as “nazi”. One other thing – you clearly have an excellent understand of this case and Sweden but can you please tone-down or at least restrict the “woman bashing” that some women have found offensive on here. Saying things like: “The women are in control in Sweden” is a gross overstatement but I understand that women probably have more standing in Sweden than almost any other country.

    A general comment – most people have kept on topic which is great. Can people please try and make their responses within one comment rather than commenting several times as it just looks like you’re spamming the site otherwise.

    Whatever your views on women or men, try and keep it respectful and evidence based. I’ll be moderating more regularly again from now on so hopefully I can keep a grip on things too. I don’t think much more can be said now until more news emerges on the case.

    BTW I’m sure that everyone has read Assange’s most recent interview in Aftonbladet by now but here it is for those that haven’t it was published on the 2nd of September – headline “Assange; It’s a circus” – which sums up it really:

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7712747.ab

  491. I’d like to point out that the smear campaign against WikiLeaks is escalating significantly and that the mindless sheeple on line and on Twitter are promoting this campaign, often for their own interests and often because they’re just mindless.

    The first part of the campaign is a spurious article by the Daily Beast, one of three sources presently involved in the systematic smear of WikiLeaks. They’ve recently published a very strange article implying they had an interview with Birgitta Jónsdóttir where she had less than flattering things to say about Jules.

    This is totally out of character for Birgitta. She wouldn’t say anything like this even if she felt it. She and Jules have worked closely together on Collateral Murder and perhaps more importantly on the Modern Media Initiative. Her dedication to the principles of WikiLeaks would supersede any personal differences she had with Jules and she would know how damaging any such statements would be under the current circumstances.

    What most probably has happened is the the same person behind the smear campaign at Cryptome, an individual of lesser and rather clumsy intellect, has fed a ‘story’ to the ad hit hungry right wing hawks at Daily Beast. Birgitta has one official email address; anything off Fastmail, Gmail, or Hushmail will by definition be anonymous. It’s likely this is what has happened here.

    The second part is the absolutely stupid and transparent story Jules has gone underground. Perhaps he has – but how would any of those hyenas know it? Nowhere is there any indication why anyone suspected him of disappearing in the first place. Both Leif Silbersky and Marianne Ny have dismissed these ‘journalistic’ attempts as a non-story but the people behind the smear just keep on.

    Do the story yourselves. Check the facts. The CIA/Pentagon are obviously trying all they can do ‘distract’ and to damage WikiLeaks in any way they can – and the sheeple of the world are too lazy and too indifferent to look into how they are being used.

    On another note – a particularly shameful one for all Swedes: a ‘legal expert’ in Sweden was interviewed on morning TV this week and asked about the international ridicule of the Swedish justice system. Her response: ‘we Swedes shouldn’t be taken back by this – all evidence shows we can be more proud than ever’.

    If that wasn’t a mouthful then I don’t know what is. Swedes really don’t see much of what’s going on outside their duck pond unless they make an effort. Their news is instead dominated by the coming national elections and what’s been happening to Victoria Silvstedt and Brittany. They really don’t see what we see.

    For all the magnificent hardware infrastructure, Swedes in general remain extraordinarily clueless in this Internet age.

    You can help the cause of WikiLeaks and the cause of truth in general by questioning those promoting spurious stories, by demanding second source corroboration, by looking beyond the alarmist headlines.

    Cheers.

  492. Hi Nicholas.

    In making my new post I’ve seen what you’ve posted recently. And again I find an abundance of gross presumption. You’re supposed to be an investigative reporter of merit. And yet I find example after example of how you don’t hold yourself to the high standards you purportedly would want to be known for.

    * ‘The women are in control in Sweden’ is a gross overstatement

    No it is not. How long have you lived in Sweden? Do you even speak the language?

    * ‘pig’ doesn’t have the same connotations as ‘nazi’

    To you maybe.